A Filthy Casual's questions about SS melds on DRK and other tanks

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Originally Posted by Hierro

I believe I once read you shouldn't care much for SS as DRK, because the more you have the less effective it becomes due to the way blood weapon works.

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The more sks you have the better blood weapon becomes. Who told you otherwise?

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Originally Posted by Violette

The more sks you have the better blood weapon becomes. Who told you otherwise?

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agree with you good sir the more Sks you have the better your burst your that 15 secs its a huge dps increase as a ot and it lowers each weapon skill tp cost by 20% per skill

Blood weapons increase your attk speed and lower your tp cost by 20% per weaponskill the more Sks you have the more gcds you can fit in the blood weapon. So in 15 secs u have a huge gain but in those 25 secs you proably lose that dmg but the cd is 40 secs but to much sks is a lost dmg/tp or was it tp/dmg

I remember reading about this in Syzygain's "Dark Knight:Tanking on The Edge" guide here on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

Dat 727 SkS tho. Yes, that's a no-no. Get that knocked down below about 687 I believe? And you should be good. If my math is right you're rocking a 2.36 GCD now out of BW, or close to it, which is detrimental. I think the biggest reason I didn't ever have this issue is I was using Nothung up until almost a week ago when I finally got my Edge of the Sephirot. Nothung is Crit/Det instead of Crit/metric-fuckton of SkS like the upgraded Deathbringer. Also the two remaining 210 accessories I have are Gordian instead of Eso, and the Gordian Fending gear tends to have less SkS iirc. I'd have to check in-game tonight.

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Not that i'm saying that is gospel, just thought id add it to the discussion.

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Originally Posted by Sarynth

My 5.7k DASE crit on sephi seems to show loads of crit is nice and I\\'m only i224

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I don't have a screenshot for you unfortunately but I think part of that one was it lined up with the ninjas debuff. What I find weird though is I haven't seen. Carve and spit hit as hard. 744 crit no food if that helps.

You need a ton of skillspeed to get significant returns on BW. Like, even getting one extra GCD under BW....Would take a shitload of skillspeed.

It's 684 SkS to get 7 GCDs under BW, and any more than that isn't really worth it. I doubt we can even get enough SkS with current gear levels to get an 8th GCD. According to Dervy's weights it's 1 SKS = 0.00016949152 off the GCD, so 1489 SkS for 8 GCDs. Good luck!

This also isn't taking into account that it would be a huge detriment while in grit since you gain no extra benefit and will just run out of TP very fast.

Edit: Whoops apparently the values were wrong.

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Originally Posted by Praesul

You need a ton of skillspeed to get significant returns on BW. Like, even getting one extra GCD under BW....Would take a shitload of skillspeed.

It's 708 SkS to get 7 GCDs under BW, and any more than that isn't really worth it. I doubt we can even get enough SkS with current gear levels to get an 8th GCD. According to Dervy's weights it's 1 SKS = 0.00016949152 off the GCD, so 2,500 SkS for 8 GCDs. Good luck!

This also isn't taking into account that it would be a huge detriment while in grit since you gain no extra benefit and will just run out of TP very fast.

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Yeah.... but if that was the amount of GCD reduction per point of SkS most players would have a GCD of 2.48-49, as a reduction of 0.3 seconds will take 1770ish SkS.

And it's only a huge detriment in Grit if you stay in grit all the time. And don't use your mana costing enmity spells.

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Originally Posted by Violette

Yeah.... but if that was the amount of GCD reduction per point of SkS most players would have a GCD of 2.48-49, as a reduction of 0.3 seconds will take 1770ish SkS.

And it's only a huge detriment in Grit if you stay in grit all the time. And don't use your mana costing enmity spells.

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That is right. Since BW already lowers your GCD by 10% (2.25) you need 684 to reach a 2.14 GCD for 7 attacks under BW. To reach an 8th attack would require a GCD of 1.87 or 1489 SPD

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

That is right. Since BW already lowers your GCD by 10% (2.25) you need 684 to reach a 2.14 GCD for 7 attacks under BW. To reach an 8th attack would require a GCD of 1.87 or 1489 SPD

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The point was the valued cited was incorrect, as you can readily test the effects of sks on gcd and it scales better than cited.

Not that stacking sks for an 8th blood weapon gcd is good idea. We can all agree it's not.

Syz here. SS stacking for increased BW returns is a bad idea because the smaller your GCD, the less of an increase activating BW is over your normal, non-BW baseline. If you have a 2.45 GCD, BW shaves off 0.245 seconds, with the result rounded up to the nearest hundredth. If you have a 2.35 GCD, it only reduces it by 0.235 seconds. The more SS you stack the worse of a cooldown it becomes and the harder it is to see meaningful returns since you reach a point of severe diminishing returns after only a couple hundred points of SS over the 354 baseline. Not to mention the crit and det (which are inarguably better for your DPS) that you are sacrificing.

BW is not FoF, it is not Berserk. Getting an extra hit in just gives you an 238 extra MP, it does not make a difference of hundreds or thousands of points of damage like other offensive CDs that actually boost your attack power or damage dealt. In no way is it optimal to load up on SS for a DRK. The only reason you would want to is to ensure that Scourge never drops while out of Grit and using BW. You can hit this mark around 687 as I was quoted saying earlier. Its still not optimal though.

Also, the numbers in this thread are wrong. An 8 GCD BW is attainable at roughly ~750(ish) SS. A 7 GCD BW is attainable with *zero* skillspeed. Observe me doing this with my low SS i233 gear set, followed by me stripping off all my clothes with SS on them and then hitting 7 GCDs with 354 SS: https://www.twitch.tv/syzygianrrf9999/v/69645223