Half-baked Thoughts of a Filthy Casual DRK

so the thing about cns that rubs me is that it can be used for more mp or high damage(and who doesnt use it for the damage respectively?).... the potency and cd time change was something i also suggested in probably the wrong thread a bit ago, but my reasoning was to take sole survivor and shift the mp part of carve n spit to it, and allow it to silence on DA use,- it would hit targets like abyssal drain does with no damage or low potency just each target hit would grant mp back, this way even on a boss fight SS could be used to get mp back like cns does without having to make that choice.(also rename it aspir and shorten the cooldown so it gets more use for resource management) the DA silence i felt would be cool if anyone really cared to use it?
I also feel like soul eater should be a good damage cooldown attack, so i thought making carve n spit a true souleater, with a DA effect to proc a crit and drain hp like lifesurge would fix the theme side of things and help with self preservation.

the rest of the kit is ok, its weird like dp blind or dd evasion, but they can be used in weird situations for more tankiness. The real issue id like to see done to drk is to make reprisal work like low blows and not be bound to a proc that relies on the cooldown as well, maybe just flat out reset it on a parry AND hsve the option to force proc it on DA usage for OT role or just if you need it for a tankbuster in general.

The only thing that bothers me about drk is having to have a macro for living death...and even with that i still get healers that derp in raid saying "sry i'm used to healing war/pld" as the effect ends and i die cuz i didn't get the full amount of healing neccessary.
Imo remove the part of living death that strait up kills you and its a good ability.

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Originally Posted by SoloNightlock

The only thing that bothers me about drk is having to have a macro for living death...and even with that i still get healers that derp in raid saying "sry i'm used to healing war/pld" as the effect ends and i die cuz i didn't get the full amount of healing neccessary.
Imo remove the part of living death that strait up kills you and its a good ability.

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lol i remember when they were first explaining sole survivor and we all thought you were gonna target a dragoon and get hp/mp back when they die.LD gone wrong "sorry used to healing war/pld" "got 10 sec to heal yourself or you die and i live"

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

I have to kick Darks on a nearly daily basis in dungeons.
As someone who mains all tanks i find the way most people play dark Knight just offending in general as a tank.All most of them do is cast unleash and tank hate combo and then afk rest of fight.

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Made me lol cuz;

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

Or you could accept that casual raiders exist.Some of them have jobs and lives.Don't want to spend 24/7 studying fights and rotations for small increases in dps.The 1% of the final fantasy population who think parsers are important need to accept that they are not.Most people play the game for fun.This is not an esport like dota or something and never will be.Quit trying to bully other players into your own standards.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

lol i remember when they were first explaining sole survivor and we all thought you were gonna target a dragoon and get hp/mp back when they die."

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LOL. Yes, I want that to be a thing :D

What I don't get is why DRK, the tank job lore-wise to be least likely to have a healer with them has the skill that is most reliant on a healer to get proper use out of. Dark Knights were flavoured as the renegade, protecting the weak and dealing out punishment to the kinds of wrongdoers that were essentially above the law, thus very unlikely to be working along side anyone, except maybe other Dark Knights and almost certainly not with healers of any sort.

Paladins were trained by or as Sultansworn and thus would be readily able to enlist the aid of a healer to aid them.
Warriors, well marauders at least have lorewise been part of Nymian units alongside Scholars. Even with the changes in the marauding style since the fall of Nym, the marauder questline at least has you supported by a conjurer for it's majority.

Paladin takes no damage with Hallowed Ground and can heal themselves up in the 10 second duration with clemency.

Warrior has access to a multitude of ways to heal up from the 1HP they are left at as a result of Holmgang.

Dark Knight however has to get healed for the equivalent of their own MAXIMUM HP just to not die as a result of getting the 'Walking Dead' debuff in 10 seconds when the only ways they have of healing themselves are:
Souleater - Only heals HP when used in Grit, where you are doing less damage anyway, but have to use Dark Arts if you want the heal to be any good. Is also at the end of a combo meaning you can't repaetedly use it as your emergency button for Walking Dead.
Abyssal Drain - Needs Dark Arts for the heal and is only good with multiple targets, using Dark Arts on it requires either delaying or using another move due to the 3 second recast on Dark Arts.
Bloodbath - 25% Heal on all your Physical skills.

Even with these tools Dark Knight isn't likely to be able to heal their way out of 'Walking Dead' on their own, the other tanks can use their skills to little if any ill effect on them, so why can't DRKs stand on their own when Warrior and Paladin can use their skills without dieing 10 seconds later?

Say I were to sit on Santa's lap and he asked me what I could have for Starlight Celebration I would ask for:

Living Dead stays as it is PLUS Walking Dead would afflict a chosen enemy with the effect "Vengeance of the Fallen." If the Healer doesn't heal me and within the time limit Walking Dead kills me, then the marked target takes damage equal to my entire health bar.

Not gonna happen, I know. It would get totally abused, and some healers would purposefully not heal DRKs for the damage, but wouldn't that just be a very lore consistent "F*ck you!" for a DRK to have?

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Originally Posted by Yhximott

Say I were to sit on Santa's lap and he asked me what I could have for Starlight Celebration I would ask for:

Living Dead stays as it is PLUS Walking Dead would afflict a chosen enemy with the effect "Vengeance of the Fallen." If the Healer doesn't heal me and within the time limit Walking Dead kills me, then the marked target takes damage equal to my entire health bar.

Not gonna happen, I know. It would get totally abused, and some healers would purposefully not heal DRKs for the damage, but wouldn't that just be a very lore consistent "F*ck you!" for a DRK to have?

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Best suggestion I've seen for Living Dead, that doesn't make it better than HG.

As for identity, I want you to all look at what people extol as dark's weakest points.

-Lack of "synergy"
-Some weak defensive cooldowns
-Living Dead's high risk
-2 ogcd's tied to getting hit (parry)
-CnS not doing high damage and returning mp.

And then ask yourself, why all the riskiness?
I mean, if you use Dark Arts-CNS and suddenly need a defensive cooldown like DADD, you've shot yourself in the foot no?
And blinding then using blood price will net you slightly less total MP, due to the OCCASIONAL miss.
And getting hit for ogcds? That's just silly. Not to mention MP control can be a pain.

But what's the return?

-Highest Tank Stance Damage over time
-High Potency ogcd's that activation's rate can be somewhat controlled
-Control over where your resources are allocated via Dark Arts, letting you aoe/heal/damage more effectively. (DP/Pin cushion/CnS)
-Longest cheat-death in terms of healers being able to DPS.

And that's my point.
There is definitely a lot of risk associated with Dark Knight's toolkit, but that's kind of the point.
Paladin is the safe tank, because it forms a solid wall. Not the highest damage, but it's also the hardest to kill (especially from physical damage).
Warrior is the all rounder. It can do a LOT of damage, it can tank very well indeed. It can't do both at the same time, but it does either very well.

Dark Knight is the risky one. It's passive defense is less than that of the Paladin, it's self healing is possibly the worst and it's utility is the worst. But it also has lots of flexibility while in tank stance and has enough defensive cooldowns to main tank without needing Grit all the time. Sure there are definitely SOME points where Dark Knight falls behind, but that's to be expected for a class which is still being tuned.

But that's just the meta at the moment.

You take a Warrior because as i said, warrior does everything well. It can't do INSANE damage and tank VERY WELL at the same time, but it's flexible enough to switch between one and the other. You take a Paladin because you want the iron wall of defense that it provides.
And you take a Dark Knight if you're feeling confident that you don't need a Paladin's defense.


So I'll ask, do you really think Dark Knight lacks an 'identity'?

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Originally Posted by Deathgiver

Made me lol cuz;

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Not sure what you think the relevance is there.When Darks aren't even tanking and just hitting those skils every now and again and leaving their character on autoattack while not useing cooldowns and letting healers and dps get agro and die while they just afk.
I shouldn't have to tank for them as a dps when i'm playing dps.

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Originally Posted by Violette

Best suggestion I've seen for Living Dead, that doesn't make it better than HG.

So I'll ask, do you really think Dark Knight lacks an 'identity'?

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Yes. Paladin has Cover, its iconic ability that isnt just the second or third hit in a combo. even if the cnj cross class skills arent very good for it, at least it fits the theme, and identity, besides being turtle tank knight in shining armor, it actually feels like a paladin in ff.
When was Dark Arts ever an iconic theme for DRK? And why doesnt it have a reliable amount of life tapping or sufficient osmose ability/spell. Darkside is literally paying a hefty price to keep 'maim' on 100% of the time, except maim doesnt prevent goad from working or army's paeon from helping tp management. To me it isnt high risk and reward, its high risk to function good enough or alright, you cant even call it a dps stance, because several defensive cooldowns are only usable with it up, and then you make bloodweapon unaccessible in Grit? I know! I'll blow carve n spit cd on a free syphon strike with 4x less damage, because bloodprice really isnt great on a single target and im mt. Drop grit for bloodweapon? NP i need to put grit on for like 1k mp there goes bw gains!