DRK help

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Envoyé par kisada

- DRK doesn't have as good a burst as WAR, and burst is the absolute KING win condition in this mode.
- DRK has almost no way to protect their teammates from burst the way PLD does.
- DRK has very little CC.
- DRK has underwhelming defensive abilities that make it more susceptible if they are designated as the medal carrier.
- DRK as a result is just a weak melee DPS that contributes almost nothing to a fight, and it really has no defining role in PVP.

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My thoughts exactly. Not to mention other staple abilities like DA + Abyssal Drain are woefully underpowered in PvP. Even if you hit multiple targets you'll rarely recover more than 800 HP because of Stoneskin and other shielding effects, and it can't be sustained anyway because of MP issues.

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Envoyé par kisada

You know what WOULD help DRK? Things that have nothing to do with pure potency adjustments. Let certain DRK attacks have CC's attached to them. Maybe add a 5 second heavy effect added to plunge. Let syphon strike steal MP from the player you hit. Or let souleater steal a player's attributes (obviously with a cap on them). Let blood weapon steal TP. Something like that.

Or make DRK the tank that fights off CC a lot easier than PLD or WAR can. Change plunge to break out of bind or sleeps. Make it so dark mind can do the same thing, or prevent bind/sleep/heavy/stun the way fetter ward can.

IMO DRK can easily be designed to have a role completely unique compared to WAR and PLD which can make it both fun and viable for arena play.

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These are all nice ideas, however I feel like it these fixes won't change much in the grand scheme of things. Allowing DRKs to shake off CC abilities from enemies won't stop the fact they can't 1. Shield allies, 2. CC opponents, or 3 provide a significant enough burst that it can't be outright ignored like lots of people do now.

I feel like a better direction would be to allow DRK to become the group CC master tank, since neither tank does that on a large scale outside of Mythril Tempest, Glory Slash. That was sort of the modus operandi of DRKs when Seal rock was a thing to keep people from capping towers.

You could give Carnal Chill a Binding effect and maybe add an ability that has a group sleep effect. We've already got a group AoE Heavyso thats taken care of. Maybe also add a effect Heavy or cure received down effect to Dark Passenger or Abyssal Drain. If they're not going to bump the potency of abilities to bring it more in line with WAR then I think "CC/debuffer tank" would be the way to go.

Its either that or start bumping potencies of major DPS abilities. Either one I wouldn't mind. I just would like to participate in the feast and not feel like I've gone from burden to beast the moment I switch from DRK to WAR.

I get your point and I think it's fair. Changing one job alone won't do a whole lot, but I think you have to start somewhere. As it is, the current metagame is designed completely around burst. Most jobs are pretty much iterations of each other: burst something something at x level of effectiveness, or handle burst at y level of effectiveness. It's pretty freaking boring and dumbed down.

But again, IMO you start somewhere. Make DRK the CC type tank in order to give it it's own unique role completely (CC that's strong enough to start messing with opposing burst) and start adjusting potency from there to make it viable. Then move on to the next job and start tweaking burst and abilities to also provide a greater diversity at each level. Well, at least that's my hope. IMO if they could make it happen, the game would benefit greatly from more of a rocks/papers/scissors type thing from every job having different roles revolving around different game dynamics, as opposed to just pure burst.


BTW since you mention debuffer tank: I think that'd actually be one other great way to boost DRK. Make DRK the tank that steals buffs from opponents while adding them to yourself. Let souleater still a single buff. Let tar pit do something similar since it's on a 120-150s CD anyway. Two easy ideas that match the tradition of DRK stealing/absorbing things while at the same time increasing viability and fun factor.

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Envoyé par Kaiche

https://youtu.be/wstJUdH2uRc In a Nutshell

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"Grab the Offensive buff so they can do more damage than a Chocobo Companion" xD I'm dying! Poor Drks.

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Envoyé par kisada

I get your point and I think it's fair. Changing one job alone won't do a whole lot, but I think you have to start somewhere. As it is, the current metagame is designed completely around burst. Most jobs are pretty much iterations of each other: burst something something at x level of effectiveness, or handle burst at y level of effectiveness. It's pretty freaking boring and dumbed down.

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And thats what makes it even more infuriating to play as DRK. Not only can you not burst good enough, but you can barely handle the burst at times either. Soul Survivor and Abyssal Drain are not comparable at any measure to Equalibrium/Second Wind or Clemency.

Your basically left with pure defensive cool downs and those need to be up in advance before you get focused/burst into oblivion. The problem however is that there simply isn't enough of them to survive a strong burst multiple times, and preplanning/playing the guessing game as to whether or not your "it" can be difficult. You could make the same argument against the other tanks, but it won't be anywhere near as strong as it is against DRK. I guess I've had times where DA + Dark Dance evaded a few jumps or buffed Full thrusts/Fell Cleaves, but thats nothing to write home about when it only happens a few times in a full blue moon.

And Living Dead is just a joke of a thing in 8v8 feast. It was merely "ok" in Seal Rock because you could lead entire groups away from objectives. In the feast not a lot of pug healers will even bother to cleanse me at the right time for maximum effectiveness or at all. I wind up using Purify or taking the L.

The burst is also so lackluster that you can't even interrupt healers with the casting changes unless you get a lucky crit hit Carve and Spit. Otherwise I've been outright ignored a lot of the time when I'm the first to any decent healer that's been marked.

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Envoyé par kisada

But again, IMO you start somewhere. Make DRK the CC type tank in order to give it it's own unique role completely (CC that's strong enough to start messing with opposing burst) and start adjusting potency from there to make it viable. Then move on to the next job and start tweaking burst and abilities to also provide a greater diversity at each level. Well, at least that's my hope. IMO if they could make it happen, the game would benefit greatly from more of a rocks/papers/scissors type thing from every job having different roles revolving around different game dynamics, as opposed to just pure burst.

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And I'm all for that. My only worry is that if they do go down this path that the CC won't actually be worth it or be under powered. i.e. here is a sleep ability but its on a 350 sec timer and the recast will only go down to 300 seconds. It would wind up being really niche then.

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Envoyé par kisada

BTW since you mention debuffer tank: I think that'd actually be one other great way to boost DRK. Make DRK the tank that steals buffs from opponents while adding them to yourself. Let souleater still a single buff. Let tar pit do something similar since it's on a 120-150s CD anyway. Two easy ideas that match the tradition of DRK stealing/absorbing things while at the same time increasing viability and fun factor.

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That again sounds like a fine idea. If not outright absorb then let Souleater have a dispel effective to start erasing buffs. Follow it up by giving Delirium Blade a Malaise effect.

I think you highlight the issues well. Also, funny that you mention about delirium providing an effect. I was just thinking that one way DRK could start changing its tune is for one of its combos to have a movespeed drain ability. For example, +10% for DRK and -10% for the target. I think it'd provide DRK not only a solid personal buff but also pave a way as an option of a more of an indirect counter to burst, by eating a player's MS (even though -10% is light).

Whether that idea in a vacuum by itself is good or not, though, isn't a big deal. But the grander idea that souleater/delirium, and even power slash might be able to have some absorption type abilities would go a LONG, LONG way to making the class a lot more viable by providing options that are either direct or indirect counters to overwhelming burst. A DRK with a delirium that drains movespeed, souleater that drains stats, and a power slash that steals single buffs would be an example of something they could do that can provide those counters. And if they start adding these types of mechanics in, the game mode itself will become more diverse, complex, and enjoyable overall.