[SPOILER] Nidhogg

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

I've been wondering about the stuff about Eyes, does this only apply to the First Brood? I'm pretty sure Midgardsormr's eyes are still on that shinryu corpse, and no one has ever brought up lesser dragon's eyes being harvested as power sources. And then there's the heretics that have transformed, how does that work?

Though I think the real question is what exactly did King Thordan do to/with Rataoskr's eyes, and where did Bahamut's eyes go?

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Did do the Heavensward story? if you did, wouldnt need to ask those questions. Well unless you skiped the cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

I believe there was also a point made that all Elezen of Ishgard carry the taint of dragon blood, and thus can be turned into a dragon by awakening that blood. It's what allows the heretics we fight to turn themselves into dragons. I believe this is what happened to Estinien, and courtesy of the eyes, the dragon he became was Nidhogg.

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They turn into dragonkin, not actual dragons.

As explained by the shade of Nidhogg before Estinien is possessed, Nidhogg('s hatred) was able to possess him because he was bathed in Nidhogg's power and blood. (Seriously shoulda taken a shower, Estinien! You had plenty of time while we were out in the Hinterlands!) There's also likely some resonance with their personalities in play, but that's unconfirmed.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

But what about Midgarsomir then? His body was just a corpse, so far we know.

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What about him? His eyes were intact, as was his corporeal body. He used the aether from sealing our Blessing to construct an avatar that followed us around (and snarked at us whenever he felt like it). It's one of those things that got lost with JP!Middy's "chattiness." Regardless, the point is it's the real Midgardsormr that followed us around, or at least used an avatar to act as an observer during 2.5 - 3.0.

Nidhogg, on the other hand, straight-out died. He is dead. We saw his body dissolve into aether. Literally everyone talks about him as if he's now a ghost - Nidhogg has been reduced to a shade sustained by the rancor that lingered in his eyes, possessing the body of a living mortal and somehow regaining his former living shape. Since a dragon's life-force is in their eyes, it's not implausible but without said eyes said dragon will die.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

I've been wondering about the stuff about Eyes, does this only apply to the First Brood? I'm pretty sure Midgardsormr's eyes are still on that shinryu corpse, and no one has ever brought up lesser dragon's eyes being harvested as power sources. And then there's the heretics that have transformed, how does that work?

Though I think the real question is what exactly did King Thordan do to/with Rataoskr's eyes, and where did Bahamut's eyes go?

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Midgardsormr was just taking nap.

The eye thing applies to every dragon, it's just that most get died before they reach the power of, say, a Celestial Dragon / Great Wyrm.

See above on "dragonkin vs. dragons." True dragons are... well, dragons. Dragonkin, on the other hand, are dragon-like beings such as aevis and diresaurs that are kind of like dragons but not the genuine article. These sorts of things are what Ishgardian heretics transform into upon consumption of dragon blood due to Ratatoskr's (diluted) power in their veins. (Which really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, seeing as there were no female knights in either the original Knights Twelve or the Heavens' Ward we fight. But I should pull my mind out of the gutter before it gets into another "How to Au Ra have children?" type thing. Ehh...)

King Thordan and the Knights Twelve ate Ratatoskr's eyes. How? Not sure.

Not sure what happened to Bahamut's eyes either. Presumably, the fact he had none lingering in the physical realm, and the fact Thordan & co. were able to eat Ratatoskr's means they're destructible. Don't need much more explanation than that.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

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What if his eyes were used on the summon ritual?

In what thing doesnt make sence may I ask? If one of the 12 kights have a dawter with his wife? then tan tan, his dawter doesnt have the essence of the the celestial dragon too? XD

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

What if his eyes were used on the summon ritual?

In what thing doesnt make sence may I ask? If one of the 12 kights have a dawter with his wife? then tan tan, his dawter doesnt have the essence of the the celestial dragon too? XD

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Whose? Bahamut's? It wouldn't make much (if any) difference, since primal-Bahamut was just a pale imitation of the genuine article, not to dissimilar to how Estinien-Nidhogg is just Nidhogg's lingering rancor given physical form.

As for the latter... well, I think it was stated by Hraesvelgr that Ratatoskr's power flows in the blood of the descendants of the Knights Twelve (by now, most every native Ishgardian). Given children only receive half a cell from their father upon conception, it... doesn't make sense for this to be the case? Not going to go further into the somewhat sordid details...

I'm overthinking it, to be honest. Magical space dragons. Or just need to restudy biology. Ehh...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Whose? Bahamut's? It wouldn't make much (if any) difference, since primal-Bahamut was just a pale imitation of the genuine article, not to dissimilar to how Estinien-Nidhogg is just Nidhogg's lingering rancor given physical form.

As for the latter... well, I think it was stated by Hraesvelgr that Ratatoskr's power flows in the blood of the descendants of the Knights Twelve (by now, most every native Ishgardian). Given children only receive half a cell from their father upon conception, it... doesn't make sense for this to be the case? Not going to go further into the somewhat sordid details...

I'm overthinking it, to be honest. Magical space dragons. Or just need to restudy biology. Ehh...

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magic breaks logical barriers xD

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Originally Posted by Cilia

I'm overthinking it, to be honest. Magical space dragons. Or just need to restudy biology. Ehh...

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Standard rules of genetics and inheritance don't really apply. By old-fashioned rationale, "blood" is something you get in a 50/50 split from your parents, which would mean dragontaint passes on either way, diluting but never leaving the system. (Seriously though, for all their flying cars and bio-engineering and get-a-load-of-our-singularity space-age bullcrap, even the Allagans operated on antiquated logic where "blood" was concerned.)

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Standard rules of genetics and inheritance don't really apply. By old-fashioned rationale, "blood" is something you get in a 50/50 split from your parents, which would mean dragontaint passes on either way, diluting but never leaving the system.

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I know. But, while that rationale is what's applied in-universe, scientifically it should be uhh... you know. Not functioning.

Like I said, overthinking it. Also, magical space dragons, logic and science don't always work when you have magical space dragons.

And yet, it still makes more sense than anything in Hildibrand's quest line...

3.2 Spoiler, Read only after completing 3.2 or under the condition of giving no f***s about major plot spoilers.

Yea, Eistenian is actually physically fuses to Nidhogg's Eyes. The Dragon can now freely switch between his and Eistenian's form as well. So apparently "Ghost" is a strong word since his Mind was still intact. (His sanity is still missing but it left him a thousand years ago)

3.2 stuff in here

It seems like the obvious solution is to destroy the eyes, which could have interesting ramifications. Lahabrea may or may not be stuck in one of them, which makes Estinidhogg a weird beast for sure.