Another perfectly reasonable AST idea

I doubt those two scenarios would lead to SCHs/WARs making complaint threads to be honest. At most it would cause groups to become more open minded about different tank/healer comps, yet the edge that WAR/SCH have over their peers (Fey Wind, Storm's Eye), would inevitably cause most groups to gravitate back towards them.

Embrace is 200 potency at cap.

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Originally Posted by Aloise

No. I've raided as a Noct AST and with multiple SCH's who are always on top of their game and know what's going on. I'm quite familiar with the tools because I have a pocket SCH when I tank, and we work out how to do our best as a pair.

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Well my point was that you've come up with certain things in your post which simply aren't true, which you would notice if you raided as a SCH. For one, as mentioned above, embrace is not 300 potency, at least not in comparison to our 400 potency heals. It does around 30% more than a WHM regen tick, and my WHM is less geared than SCH so I can't make an accurate comparison.

Sacred Soil is definitely not something an AST is losing out on, in fact I think it's quite barbaric that anyone would even suggest Collective Unconscious as being inferior to the other two 'bubbles'. Sacred Soil isn't something you just use a stack on and plop on the screen, it's used specifically for raid wide damage and usually people run out of it as soon as the move is over; as such Collective Unconscious does exactly the same thing plus adding a very potent regen on top of that. Saying you can't move is not a valid argument, because you only ever really need it up for the one incoming attack anyway.

Finally, MP is certainly not endless on good SCHs. When you're in charge of essentially taking on two roles at once, you'll drain your MP fast. Not to mention some of our spells cost considerable more to cast than the other healers.

I appreciate that Nocturnal AST isn't as good at mitigation as SCH, but if you're making comparisons, you need to at least know enough about the other jobs so you're not discrediting your post. Personally I think AST is in a great place right now and needs NO buffs, it just requires more skillful people to play.

I agree AST is fine except Nocturnal AST and i dont play Nocturnal AST in raids or dungeons i cant rly give any ideas what they can do to improve that stance. =P

But i wish in Diurnal they would increase the range of Aspected Helios by 5 yards and make Celestial Opposition more useful for a 2min CD.
Its never the case but as Diurnal AST you cast very very fast with a Piety/SS build you have a higher heal output than a WHM (if you dont count in Medica 2 Hots and burst heal like Assize) with your Helios and single target heals. "rip MP?^^"

Of course you have to work more as AST to heal the party (10 potency less on hots its a lot and you miss stuff like Asylum/Assize) but you bring a lot of utility even if cards are RNG.
Also AST/SCH have the highest dmg mitigation with deployment tactics/sacred soil/grp bowl(if you have it rdy^^)/virus/disable/ystohla bubble

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

Finally, MP is certainly not endless on good SCHs. When you're in charge of essentially taking on two roles at once, you'll drain your MP fast. Not to mention some of our spells cost considerable more to cast than the other healers.

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I would suggest you a bit more use of Energy Drain.

Really, in raids and dungeons Scholars does have a large amount of practical mana, enough for it to not matter unless you waste it all on Succor and Adloquium. Sacred Ground is a great mitigation tool as well, due to the low cooldown it has. I'm using it more and more to lessen the amount of incoming general damage, in much the same way I learned how to love Emergency Tactics. The general idea of damage prevention is lost to the Nocturnal Astrologian, since all it seems to have gimmick-wise is an inferior Scholar toolbox.


And Embrace is half a Physick, almost a whole Physick if you've got Rouse up, at the same delivery speed as the Scholar can muster if it's got Fey Wind, or like a normal Physick if the target has Fey Illumination going. You're doing about 60% of your own healing most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Cheibriados

Really, in raids and dungeons Scholars does have a large amount of practical mana, enough for it to not matter unless you waste it all on Succor and Adloquium. Sacred Ground is a great mitigation tool as well, due to the low cooldown it has.

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I'll let Kabzy roast you if he/she feels like it, so I'll just ignore the rest of your post. But this particular bit I'd like to address.

You do realise that Sacred soil is never worth it on non-lethal attacks, right?

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

You do realise that Sacred soil is never worth it on non-lethal attacks, right?

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You do realize that aetherflow stacks aren't THAT precious, right? You even have two ways to gaining them now. Shadow Flare does take priority, of course, but prevention is better than curing at all times.

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Originally Posted by Cheibriados

I would suggest you a bit more use of Energy Drain.

Really, in raids and dungeons Scholars does have a large amount of practical mana, enough for it to not matter unless you waste it all on Succor and Adloquium. Sacred Ground is a great mitigation tool as well, due to the low cooldown it has. I'm using it more and more to lessen the amount of incoming general damage, in much the same way I learned how to love Emergency Tactics. The general idea of damage prevention is lost to the Nocturnal Astrologian, since all it seems to have gimmick-wise is an inferior Scholar toolbox.


And Embrace is half a Physick, almost a whole Physick if you've got Rouse up, at the same delivery speed as the Scholar can muster if it's got Fey Wind, or like a normal Physick if the target has Fey Illumination going. You're doing about 60% of your own healing most of the time.

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Basic rule of thumb on SCH: lustrate and imdom are for more valuable to spend stacks on than sacred soil. In fact sacred soil is usually the last thing a SCH spends stacks on. If its a non lethal attack, the soil is wasted. Lustrate and indom let you dps more, as you can drop clerics and use stacks on instant heals. Energy drain manages your mana and deals more dps. Sacred soil hasnt been worthwhile (except a few niche uses in raids like t11 crit nerve cloud, t13 terraflare) since 2.0 when lustrate healed a lower % of hp and people were still figuring stuff out.

Also in progression raids, SCH do have mana issues. They are less than AST or WHM usually, but non the less they are still there.

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

Personally I think AST is in a great place right now and needs NO buffs, it just requires more skillful people to play.

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Where as i agree that AST is in a good place right now, i dont agree that it needs no buffs. There is one area that really needs addressing and that is emnity management on AST. Luminiferious Aether's Quelling Strikes effects is all but useless, so some tweaking is needed there.

I agree with the points that moon/Lyrica/kabzy have made about SCH. Playing to the best of your ability, taking every opportunity to heal the most effectively while keeping your dps contribution as high as you can, can lead to massive mana issues, especially using succor back to back with emergency tactics (I usually let the other healer pick up that other half of the mana splurge or Indom.)

One thing for AST i would like to see is the ability to switch sects mid fight. The only balance issue would be the insane regens on top of instant cast shield. A fix would be to have your own aspected spells override your previous ones.

>>>>>>OR<<<<<<<

Another thing that could be done specifically to nocturnal is to increase the duration of all buffs by another multiplier, only while casting abilities like time dilation or celestial opposition. (Therefore cards and Wheel of Fortune act the same without the above skills)

Ex diurnal sect: cast bole for 30 seconds then celestial opposition it to 35
In nocturnal sect:cast bole for 30 seconds then celestial opposition it to 40.

This would shift the pressure of asts needing to be a dps clone of sch to a more true "support" in their nocturnal stance, thus increasing dps or damaging mitigation.

Just a thought. Everyone understands that time dilation and celestial opposition have poor synergy with nocts aspected spells.

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Originally Posted by Cheibriados

You do realize that aetherflow stacks aren't THAT precious, right? You even have two ways to gaining them now. Shadow Flare does take priority, of course, but prevention is better than curing at all times.

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Not being "Precious" does not justify wasting them on pointless acts. I'm sorry if I hit a sore spot here and questioning "your style", but using soil on anything that will not cause a wipe or anywhere close to it is a waste:

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Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

Basic rule of thumb on SCH: lustrate and imdom are for more valuable to spend stacks on than sacred soil. In fact sacred soil is usually the last thing a SCH spends stacks on. If its a non lethal attack, the soil is wasted. Lustrate and indom let you dps more, as you can drop clerics and use stacks on instant heals. Energy drain manages your mana and deals more dps. Sacred soil hasnt been worthwhile (except a few niche uses in raids like t11 crit nerve cloud, t13 terraflare) since 2.0 when lustrate healed a lower % of hp and people were still figuring stuff out.

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For example: Indomitability heals for 3300 on each target - With my gear anyways. That means soil has to mitigate enough damage that's worth 33000 unmitigated within the active time of Sacred Soil. When this amount of damage cannot be reached, it's a sub-optimal or even poor choice to waste an Aetherflow stack on Sacred Soil. For single target application it's an even worse choice, considering Lustrate packs more potency than Indomitability.

"Prevention better than curing"? Only in scenario's that can actually lead to deaths. For everything else, sacred soil's a waste of stack.

As for the "two ways to gain them", I'll let someone else roast you on that.