Can a ninja explain this to me

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Originally Posted by Callback

Ideally you want to suiton during pull, so you don't have to weave a 3-step-ninjutsu while your offensive buffs are up.

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Fixed that for you.

I'm not even going to dive into the opener you just posted, because there's just so much wrong with it. Please keep the misconceptions of pulling with 5 seconds left on mudra cd being anywhere near "ideal" out of here.

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

Fixed that for you.

I'm not even going to dive into the opener you just posted, because there's just so much wrong with it. Please keep the misconceptions of pulling with 5 seconds left on mudra cd being anywhere near "ideal" out of here.

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With that attitude you may as well suhunkuchi->hide->TA on pull before hide is disabled by combat status and not waste any ninjutsu at all, replacing your AE with a duality dancing before the DoTs and a double raiton. I don't know if you have terrible lag or godly skillspeed, but if you can't fit suiton into a single GCD, something is up.

Yes it's ok if you need to suiton first, the buff lasts long enough to get your DA in before TA, but there's no real benefit to that. You still can't hold it long enough to get your base ninjutsu back up before TA wears off, so you still need to kassatsu your raiton. Your method is the exact same as mine as long as the fight starts correctly for each. The only difference is I get slightly more time on my huton, but both leave plenty of a buffer for a typical armor crush rotation to stay up.

Your method is not any better than mine. Both are equally valid and should be switched between depending on how your tank times things.

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Originally Posted by Morbid

Lol no..

They must be counting Mudra cooldown after Huton.. you don't need to wait.. by the time you finish you first rotation it will be close to up again.

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Dude, try a 15-20s pull macro after Huton. You'll love how much better ninja's opener is with Suiton -> Trick Attack from the start, so will your party.

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Originally Posted by Callback

I don't know if you have terrible lag or godly skillspeed, but if you can't fit suiton into a single GCD, something is up.

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You're clipping the GCD. I guarantee it. You have the animation lock of the previous GCD skill, the 1.5s of mudra, and the animation lock of Suiton, and you're trying to fit them all into just over 2s. It's going to clip. If you don't believe me, consider this: Our TP cost per GCD did not change at all with Heavensward, yet we suddenly had more severe TP burn. The reason? We aren't casting Huton anymore, so we aren't getting as much GCD clip.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

You're clipping the GCD. I guarantee it. You have the animation lock of the previous GCD skill, the 1.5s of mudra, and the animation lock of Suiton, and you're trying to fit them all into just over 2s. It's going to clip. If you don't believe me, consider this: Our TP cost per GCD did not change at all with Heavensward, yet we suddenly had more severe TP burn. The reason? We aren't casting Huton anymore, so we aren't getting as much GCD clip.

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This. After the 3.1 changes to mudras, we now barely reached the point where raiton is finally better than shuriken IF you have zero lag, even though it still clips very slightly under huton. Any sort of 3-step-mudra will still heavily clip though, and there's no way it's any different for you.

But this is only part of the reason why doing suiton after DE is bad, it also takes up one valuable ogcd spot that is better used for something else. Namely you want to use B4B at that point, in order to get another AE combo after TA under the effect of B4B if you have selene speed buff, wich you will most likely have in most raid scenarios (AST speed buff works too). Double weaving DwaD and mug is also not a good thing, aswell as getting kassatsu on cd that late. Your opener is just all over the place, which is mainly because you have to do it like that, due to your delayed suiton.

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

This. After the 3.1 changes to mudras, we now barely reached the point where raiton is finally better than shuriken IF you have zero lag, even though it still clips very slightly under huton. Any sort of 3-step-mudra will still heavily clip though, and there's no way it's any different for you.

But this is only part of the reason why doing suiton after DE is bad, it also takes up one valuable ogcd spot that is better used for something else. Namely you want to use B4B at that point, in order to get another AE combo after TA under the effect of B4B if you have selene speed buff, wich you will most likely have in most raid scenarios (AST speed buff works too). Double weaving DwaD and mug is also not a good thing, aswell as getting kassatsu on cd that late. Your opener is just all over the place, which is mainly because you have to do it like that, due to your delayed suiton.

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What about my alternate theory then, opening directly with a raw TA and getting the double raiton off during it, but needing to pass up the AE and just duality your DE?

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Originally Posted by Callback

What about my alternate theory then, opening directly with a raw TA and getting the double raiton off during it, but needing to pass up the AE and just duality your DE?

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Even if such a thing were consistent and do-able in a raid scenario, most openers would not appreciate the very first 10s having Trick Attack applied. The standard roughly-5-seconds-in Trick Attack usually covers any ramp-up a class may have.

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Originally Posted by Houston009

Dude, try a 15-20s pull macro after Huton. You'll love how much better ninja's opener is with Suiton -> Trick Attack from the start, so will your party.

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That's what I'm saying if you use Armor Crush to maintain Huton then you don't have to wait at boss for the NIN at least to recast Huton. All of your cooldowns will immediately be available...

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Originally Posted by Morbid

That's what I'm saying if you use Armor Crush to maintain Huton then you don't have to wait at boss for the NIN at least to recast Huton. All of your cooldowns will immediately be available...

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The problem is that you seem to be discussing dungeons while everyone else here is discussing raiding. I don't think anyone's advocating 15 second pull macros in Pharos.

I mentioned multi part raids as well the same principle would relate to WoD and I've accomplished the same thing in Alexander. My point wouldn't be applicable in something like Primals or Trials perhaps.

I made 2nd post sorry.