A Step-by-Step Guide to 2 Star Crafting by Caimie Tsukino

And 16cp is lot to lose with 2 Manip...
I admit using it on basic craft because it's comfy for not 70 and 40 dura craft
But on 1 and 2 star craft where EVERY single CP is important you better save them as much as possible !

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And the problem of rapid synthesis... The rng
The odds of failling rs are high... And I failed them more often that hasty touch =S

You only lose 8 cp from 2x manip. Every step you waste is 8 cp back from comfort zone, so using it twice is one more step than MM2. I've found the flexibility is worth it. There are a variety of what-if scenarios where it's useful. Most notably it's an extra chance for a good proc.

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Originally Posted by Nekotee

And the problem of rapid synthesis... The rng
The odds of failling rs are high... And I failed them more often that hasty touch =S

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It's the same success rate as hasty touch. You get extra hasty attempts at the cost of possibly using some of them on rapid synth. More often than not I've found it works out in my favor. And you're EXPECTED to fail one of the rapids.

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Originally Posted by Immut

You only lose 8 cp from 2x manip. Every step you waste is 8 cp back from comfort zone, so using it twice is one more step than MM2. I've found the flexibility is worth it. There are a variety of what-if scenarios where it's useful. Most notably it's an extra chance for a good proc.

It's the same success rate as hasty touch. You get extra hasty attempts at the cost of possibly using some of them on rapid synth. More often than not I've found it works out in my favor. And you're EXPECTED to fail one of the rapids.

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I can understand certain flexibility can come from Manipulation. E.g. if your CP is already very low. There's no way you can spend 160 CP, but spending on Manip, allows some room for the remaining steps of Comfort Zone to flow back in. It's pretty much the same advantage as using Waste Not except Manip is (1) less CP efficient but gains 1 more step than WN, (2) allows Trick of Trade to be taken any time comparing to WN. However, if the main CP pool is still plenty, then there's no extra "flexibility" you can get out from 2x Manip comparing to a single Master's Mend II. In both cases, you can freely take any Trick of Trade any time, which is something superior to Waste Not.

Can you please show an example of how you can "get extra hasty attempts"? If you EXPECT one Rapid to fail, so you need 60 durab for completion, and it costs 57 CP. While NOT using Rapid syn meaning a solid 50 durab for completion, and it costs only 52 CP, possibly only 32 CP if a lucky Trick was taken. I just can't understand where your "extra hasty touches" are coming from when you're spending more durab and spending more CP...

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

While NOT using Rapid syn meaning a solid 50 durab for completion, and it costs only 52 CP, possibly only 32 CP if a lucky Trick was taken. I just can't understand where your "extra hasty touches" are coming from when you're spending more durab and spending more CP...

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This is using rapid. You need 8 FS, you can take two ToT and fail two FS. If you fail a RS, you can change a HT into RS dropping you down to 11 HT. Below is showing without ToT. The synth requires 825 craft 705 control and 456 CP.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...RS%20il170.png

Below shows taking the two ToT and has the extra progress shown that you can afford to fail. As you can see the CP from ToT does not get wasted and can easily be used for PT, Ingen 2 on bb, innovation, or any number of modifications to ensure you HQ. Note this synth also has 0 starting quality.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...202x%20ToT.png

I don't use this rotation, but I made it for a friend that wanted a different rotation for his bsm. I use the one you all call "Rath's rotation" now as I can do it by memory and have a multitude of variations I do depending on the situation. Anyways, I figured I would put it up as people have high enough stats for this sort of rotation now. One thing is to make sure you be aware of your progress gains or the cs2 under ingen 2 may finish early if you get too many FS. At that point you can alter the rotation slightly on your own to move the CS2 out of ingen2 easily enough.

Below is one way to modify it if you get too many FS due to no fails or tricks. Coincidentally it allows you to fish on bb. These mats are roughly 450k now if you buy the scrip items from the MB, so I am going to probably start experimenting with some high-craft/control requirements to find a new optimal synth for myself. Will post it once I am done playing around.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...0many%20FS.png

Thanks for the input, Rath! I love your rotations! :)
Indeed, using Ingen2+Rapid syn can substitute the use of PBP and some CS IIs, which saves steps for more Hasties. But what Immut was referring earlier, was doing Ingen2+Rapid Syn WITHOUT utilizing MaMa nor MuMe. Thus, I don't think simply using Ingen2+Rapid Syn would save any steps when MaMa or MuMe are not being utilized.

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

Thanks for the input, Rath! I love your rotations! :)
Indeed, using Ingen2+Rapid syn can substitute the use of PBP and some CS IIs, which saves steps for more Hasties. But what Immut was referring earlier, was doing Ingen2+Rapid Syn WITHOUT utilizing MaMa nor MuMe. Thus, I don't think simply using Ingen2+Rapid Syn would save any steps when MaMa or MuMe are not being utilized.

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I see that. I was more just showing a way RS was useful and potentially increases the number of HT. I did not see his actual rotation, but as soon as you go above 2 RS, your chances of failing at least one of them are too high to make it worth using over a rotation without it. The only way to do that is to use MuME, MaMa, PbP, or Brand+. If you use any of those besides MaMa, your Durability for progress will be at least as high as other guaranteed progress rotations, so there is no real reason to use them. Sure they may have a chance to have less durability, but on average they will not. You can get a 13 HT rotation using RS, but the craft required is 860 and you still need a large enough amount of FS that you should not risk taking a tricks anyways. I would rather take a tricks and be able to guarantee a PT on a good over an extra HT. That left me developing the 12 HT rotation I posted.