BRD and MCH support outside the progression

Yeah....I can confidently say as a Machinist I've never been beaten by any random DPS in ex roullette. Generally 90 percent of all players that do It are equally terrible with a 10 percent chance of getting someone who isn't half brain dead. Has nothing to do with any of the jobs and how good or bad the job is but the players themselves.

We don't need your support in 4-man content. 4-man content is so easy that no one should discriminate against you based on DPS. Just know your rotation and keep your gear up to date and you're worth your slot.

Well it is just player skill for sure because i have even done more dps as PLD then dps classes, lol
I was actually vey impressed the one time i ran as Ninja with a Machinist, the dps seemed very impressive, just do not recall the person's name
It is still a misconception out there that people have if they see 2 Bards or Bard+Machinist that a dungeon run will be slow.
At the beginning of hw though runs were rather slow until people got familiar with the new class and changes to Bard

I do just fine in 4 man content. What scares me is how many complements I have gotten from people in the 4 man Ex Roulette or equal runs where people go "wow that was fast" or "what a smooth run." That seems to make me think that there are so many bad MCH/BRD out there that give us a bad name.

The only time that I groan is when its double MCH or MCH + BRD runs. Those seem to take a little longer than normal and that's just the nature of the beast when running with double support base classes.

You come across a LOT of players that don't even try at all in roulette. So any class you play, if you do it right, can make a big difference.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

You come across a LOT of players that don't even try at all in roulette. So any class you play, if you do it right, can make a big difference.

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This includes Void Ark :(

It's handy to have the Tp regent when you're running with a bad AOE class like a Dragoon

MCH does particularly bad in roulette because of how it's designed. Boss invulnerability phases. Phase changes. Mobs dying too fast. The entire job is built around wildfire which doesn't work well in 4 man content

Most 4 man content has an absurd amount of dodge mechanics compared to raids which also screws with your DPS a lot.

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Originally Posted by KeluBehemoth

It's handy to have the Tp regent when you're running with a bad AOE class like a Dragoon

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You're doing something terribly wrong if you consider dragoon a "bad AOE class"

MCH wildfire has a 90 second recast timer, long enough to use accordingly on bosses since no boss to my knowledge goes invuln within 15 seconds (duration of wildfire) of the start of the fight except maybe titan hard/ex if you push dps fast enough. Sure it takes a bit of prior knowledge of some encounters to properly use wildfire, but every major fight is scripted to the point where with enough repetition you SHOULD know when to use/not use your major abilities.

Anyway, like others have mentioned, most pug dps in 4 man dungeons don't try, or aren't proficient in their class. What's frustrating is when you try to correct them and they get super defensive about it instead of taking your advice. MCH and BRD are fine in dungeons if played to their potential.