FFXIV Rocks ...

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Originally Posted by ZanderJS

Avoid Parry where possible due to RNG.

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People really need to stop saying this...

To quote a good guide:

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Parry is better the more you MT, DPS is better the more you OT…

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Parry has its use. Just because idiots go, "RNG!" does NOT mean parry is useless. Do you consciously stack it? No. But neither should you completely avoid it.

Also, Hurp said he's 39 (as of yesterday, which means he's probably in the 40s now). Gearing isn't a huge concern until 60.

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Originally Posted by Ralvenom

Parry has its use.

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https://youtu.be/HUXck-0vh5k?t=896

It's by no means useless, it does... something... but if you could have any other stat over Parry, you'd want to take that. When leveling secondary stats literally don't matter at all, but it does matter at 60 and it's good to know how useful those secondary stats are at cap. Parry, as a secondary stat, isn't very good.

Also, can you link this guide? I'm curious to see it.

e: Nevermind, found it (http://www.ffxivguild.com/ffxiv-tank...-vs-dps-stats/). It basically argues that "the more you tank, the better Parry becomes" - which is... sort of true? It does get more use the more you tank because when you're not tanking it's literally doing nothing. However, the way that Parry works as a secondary stat is that it increases how often you Parry point for point - which sounds great! More Parry = less damage taken = less healing needed. But it never actually works out that way, because not only is 99% of a fight auto attacks (which are healed through Fairy heals + Med2 + Regen alone) but you have to consider what you're trading off in place of that Parry.

Unless it's more Accuracy than you need for that fight (which is actually worse than Parry as it literally does nothing at all), then you're sacrificing damage in place of random chance mitigation. The RNG nature of Parry and the encounter design in XIV make it inherently worse - you can't rely on it to work against a tank buster or a cleave (unless using Raw Intuition, which makes Parry as a stat even worse for WAR) whereas you can rely on Det, Crit, and to a lesser extent Skill Speed to increase your overall damage. The quicker the thing dies, the less damage you take, and the less big damage your healers have to deal with overall. Parrying a move is amazing, Raw Intuition is a fantastic CD, but Parry as a stat just... doesn't really work well. It's better than nothing at all, but there are always better options unless that particular gear piece has high enough main stat that downgrading simply isn't an option and you can only get the same main stat from a piece of gear with Parry already socketed into it.

... Basically, Parry isn't the worst, but there are better options for secondary stats always, whether you're MTing a lot or OTing a lot.

I actually really like that article, because it brings up good points: stats like those are situational for tanks, because their usefulness is entirely dependent on what you're doing, and on the encounter.

I think this lines up with the discussion on the current paradigm/meta pretty nicely, as well, and suggests that it's an encounter design problem more than a tank design problem. Parry is (basically) useless in A1-A4, because of the overwhelming majority of attacks that bosses due are magic-based (which is why DRK is so swanky right now, and why PLD is so...not). And with the tight tuning of the DPS checks (without a corresponding increase in incoming damage), more tanks are spending more time out of their tank stances, even while holding the boss. The article suggested this was a Bad Idea, but since it's the current accepted tanking gameplay paradigm/meta, it devalues Parry and Vit in favor of DPS stats.

There's also the fact that enmity gameplay is still a thing, and more DPS means more enmity, so if all you're doing is your Extreme Roulette, there is some value to having those extra DPS pieces anyway (even at 194 in mostly Slaying accessories, I've had times where a savage-geared SMN will pull everything off me but the mob I'm targeting). For the most part, Parry will help you survive those dungeons (and big pulls) better, but most healers will be able to keep you up in there without much problem once you've gotten to ~170+ levels of mitigation.

I'd need to crunch numbers, but I do wonder if healers can outdo tanks for DPS in their DPS stances.

In 3.1 and beyond, though, we may see a shift in this design in high-end raiding to where having tankier tanks is desirable, and career tanks would probably welcome it.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

... Basically, Parry isn't the worst, but there are better options for secondary stats always, whether you're MTing a lot or OTing a lot.

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Indeed, but eschewing gear because it has parry on it is often dumb, especially since that gear may actually be BiS. There are, however, people who throw out gear because "OH, NO! PARRY", when they failed to consider things like accuracy on said gear. (A chunk of 77 or 86 acc frees up other gear so you don't have to stack as much acc.) However, parry does need a serious redesign.

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

I certainly feel FFXIV has done a great thing in making tanking appeal to players who otherwise wouldn't gravitate towards the role, as it's a very aggressive DPS-centered playstyle.

I'd personally sadly counter the OPs point and say that in its current state, tanking in FFXIV is very unappealing to me (a career tank across multiple MMOs for 10-15 years now) and I'm considering swapping away from it if it doesn't change in the upcoming raids. I do know I'm in the minority for this viewpoint, but I really detest how tanks here are forced to focus almost exclusively on improving their DPS output at the expense of their toughness. I do it, but begrudgingly.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/NTsguqm2UlYJi/giphy.gif

3.0 Warrior FTW! #4Life

(in keeping with the original post format)

....Because of the amazingly intricate and fun crafting system. No other game comes even close to the crafting in FFXIV.

I miss Ninja Tanks from FFXI. I always felt godly whenever Utsusemi absorbed a huge tank buster. Wish they'd bring that mechanic back somehow.

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Originally Posted by Satyagrahi

(in keeping with the original post format)

....Because of the amazingly intricate and fun crafting system. No other game comes even close to the crafting in FFXIV.

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FF14 crafting is interactive WoW crafting. Don't try to oversell it. Better crafting systems in MMOs have existed that completely blow it out of the water.

"Black Mage has learned 'Rain on Parade!'"
"But Black Mage can only know four moves."
"Delete move to make room?
1. Fyre <=== ?
2. Bleeza
3. Thonda
4. 'I lagged'
5. No."

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Originally Posted by Maikeru

Warrior is amazing at level 60. I'm a former paladin (MT'd all the Coil trilogy as PLD), then switched to WAR for the 3.0. Best.decision.ever! DRK is actually fun to play too. I've been tanking in a lot of MMOs and I like the way tanks here can do more stuff than just tank. I love the idea how they can try to maximize their DPS as they balance it with their mitigation skills. You feel truly useful for your group, no matter which job you play, either if you're maintanking or offtanking.

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Did you switch because you wanted to or because your group felt the "first month world progression fever" allllllll the other groups had? Because as it stands now the timeframe for pld to be "useless" is over, now the only time you NEED a war/drk is if your dps aren't fully utilizing their 200 set.

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Originally Posted by Nomad-phx

Did you switch because you wanted to or because your group felt the "first month world progression fever" allllllll the other groups had? Because as it stands now the timeframe for pld to be "useless" is over, now the only time you NEED a war/drk is if your dps aren't fully utilizing their 200 set.

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Do make note though : when 3.2 arrives and the NEXT Savage raid content arrives... the same thing will happen, unless something changes. Looking at the possible Paladin buffs in 3.1 along with a slightly different direction that favors higher tank damage in encounters and less extreme dps checks.

If 3.2 arrives and the balance hasnt shifted, Paladins will be shunted to the wayside on the early progression exactly like they have been in 3.0. For many that wont matter but for any groups wanting to push the second instance of Alex hard on release, DRK/WAR is probably going to be the go-to again unless the designers change philosophy.