Shield Oath+Sword Oath at once

If Sword Oath functioned like Darkside then this would actually be a very viable thing. Both Shield Oath and Grit function the same (-20% dmg taken -20% atk power) but DRK can have Darkside and Grit up at the same time negating their dmg decrease to -5% due to the mp drain.
Re-work Sword Oath so it does the same mp drain since we have Riot Blade to help us get mp back just as DRK has Syphon Strike and give the 15% increase instead of 50 potency on auto-attacks only.
Problem solved with PLD having such a low damage output compared to the other tanks.

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

Am I missing a joke here? >_>

OP's suggestion is fine - it means that paladins will do more DPS and threat when in their tank stance (50 potency per auto attack is sizeable), will be able to swap to their DPS stance simply by disabling Shield Oath so wont waste a GCD (similar to DRKs disabling Grit) and wont affect their offtank dps which is pretty much fine.

etc due to limit.

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Because most if not all of his threads are trollish.

See the thing about SWO and SHO is that they bounce off each and the fact you can't have them both on is one of there down sides and just poping Sword oath on increases PLD's Auto attack nothing else, it you could have both on just remove like 2% from SHO damage output then.

But yes you are right DRK can have Grit and DS but at the cost of MP and how expensive grit is to turn back on and also DS is required to be on to use some of DRK's skills and it fits into DRK lore wise.

If SwO worked like Darkside this would be fine. I don't think homogenization is the answer, but it's definitely one of the possible solutions. Though something to keep in mind is that if PLD is doing DRK levels of DPS, it's also bringing a shield and an on-demand 30% physical damage reduction CD every 30s... and Hallowed. This is what I meant when I posted that it's really hard to fix jobs without data of how those changes would affect balance.

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Originally Posted by Aethon

... DRK can have Darkside and Grit up at the same time negating their dmg decrease to -5% due to the mp drain....

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Grit Off, Darkside Off: 1.0
Grit Off, Darkside On: 1.15
Grit On, Darkside Off: 0.8
Grit On, Darkside On: 0.8 * 1.15 = 0.92

Ergo, Having both Darkside and Grit on, your damage is trailing by 8%, not 5%.

If both SwO and ShO be on at the same time, it will effectively increase a PLD's pot per sec by 17.86... which is 35.71% of a normal SwO extra attack.

My current normal SwO extra attack deals an ave of 205. So with my eso sword, it will effectively increase my dps by 73.21 with both oaths up. Not bad...

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Originally Posted by rawker

Grit Off, Darkside Off: 1.0
Grit Off, Darkside On: 1.15
Grit On, Darkside Off: 0.8
Grit On, Darkside On: 0.8 * 1.15 = 0.92

Ergo, Having both Darkside and Grit on, your damage is trailing by 8%, not 5%.

If both SwO and ShO be on at the same time, it will effectively increase a PLD's pot per sec by 17.86... which is 35.71% of a normal SwO extra attack.

My current normal SwO extra attack deals an ave of 205. So with my eso sword, it will effectively increase my dps by 73.21 with both oaths up. Not bad...

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To negate the penalties of Grit. It would need to be adjusted to 18.75% whilst in Grit Stance.

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Originally Posted by rawker

Grit Off, Darkside Off: 1.0
Grit Off, Darkside On: 1.15
Grit On, Darkside Off: 0.8
Grit On, Darkside On: 0.8 * 1.15 = 0.92

Ergo, Having both Darkside and Grit on, your damage is trailing by 8%, not 5%.

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Yah that is the way if you drop Darkside and Grit of everytime you wanna do dps, but you can use Darkside even without Grit so it is more like 23% less damage in tanking stance than dps stance.

I like this ! Let's make warrior have the hp / healing boost he gets from defiance while he is on deliverance ! That way all the Raid will be 6 warriors 2 healers.

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Originally Posted by KinSlayer009

I like this ! Let's make warrior have the hp / healing boost he gets from defiance while he is on deliverance ! That way all the Raid will be 6 warriors 2 healers.

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SwO doesn't negate ShO's damage reduction completely (even if it did they could make some numerical adjustments to make it... not), just as Maim and Darkside don't negate Defiance's/Grit's. The only problem I see with SwO being able to be used in conjunction with ShO is that there's no cost and no upkeep necessary. If they changed it to drain mana, then they'd just be copying Darkside which is a bit... boring. It's certainly one solution to PLD's MT DPS deficiency though.

Orrrr how about you remove enmity generation from flash during sword oath and change it to a STR based aoe, since a giant portion of a pallys lack of dps is aoe (talked about this with a friend today). It also encourages the use of riot blade to replenish mp and goring blade to spread its powerful dot around. You could also do something similar to Royal Authority, but I'd like to see something that increases nearby party members defenses while in the off tank stance after its been used for a short time.

This OP topic is a troll though for sure.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

SwO doesn't negate ShO's damage reduction completely (even if it did they could make some numerical adjustments to make it... not), just as Maim and Darkside don't negate Defiance's/Grit's. The only problem I see with SwO being able to be used in conjunction with ShO is that there's no cost and no upkeep necessary. If they changed it to drain mana, then they'd just be copying Darkside which is a bit... boring. It's certainly one solution to PLD's MT DPS deficiency though.

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Maybe make it have more SKP, more damage but you'd be TP starved so not advised to have constantly then again PLD's has TP problems as it is.