Extreme Dungeons | Not Extreme (insert boss name here)

Hard to say whether it is worth the effort of production. Players always take the path of least resistance.

i.e. Easy Dungeon with 40 Tomes > Exteme with 40 Tomes

Easy with 40 Tomes that takes 20 mins > Exteme for 60 Tomes that takes 40 mins

Extreme for 100 Tomes > Easy for 40 Tomes = too hard plz nerf or I'll cancel my sub.

Tam-tara Extreme: The Return of Edda Pureheart


I'm waiting squeenix

They said they wouldn't make Aurum Vale Hard. Too much work they said. It's a 1.0 dungeon they said. Not enough interest they said.

But then they made Aurum Vale Extreme. Rejoice, for now there's a single dungeon in the game that makes you pay attention.

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Originally Posted by MentheusDreyar

They tried making harder "casual content" which dungeons are, because everyone has to be able to do them, and you know how that turned out... see Steps of Faith. The performance of the general player is far too poor to allow anything challenging in that type of content because when enough bad players moan SE are sadly forced to nerf it into the ground or start losing income.

I fully agree we need harder content in general, but until the average skill level pick up we wont see that and hard content will be resigned to trials and raids.

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The problem was steps of faith was a two face issue.

- It was Required in the main storyline so you got tons of people not good. If it was for example: A raid after crystal tower it would of been easier because people would have gear for it.

- It rewarded nothing.

I completed it when it was challenging.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

They said they wouldn't make Aurum Vale Hard. Too much work they said. It's a 1.0 dungeon they said. Not enough interest they said.

But then they made Aurum Vale Extreme. Rejoice, for now there's a single dungeon in the game that makes you pay attention.

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AV isn't hard, its a poorly designed dungeon that is more frustrating then anything else since it punishes you for trying to do it faster and the monsters have overbloated health.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

AV isn't hard, its a poorly designed dungeon that is more frustrating then anything else since it punishes you for trying to do it faster and the monsters have overbloated health.

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I'm talking about Aurum Vale Extreme, not Aurum Vale.

If you think AV punishes you for going fast, well, yeah. It's one of the few times in this game where content asks you to think before running into a room blindly and AoEing everything down.

The main thing I agree with is the fact that raiding should not have become an unforgiving DPS check in Alex Savage. In Coil you could have a few deaths, mess up a few mechanics, and still recover. There were soft and hard enrage timers but your Tanks and Healers didn't have to turn themselves into full-time DPS in order to clear it. It helped a lot but it wasn't necessary.


In AS3 you're forced to put both Tanks in their DPS stance 95% of the fight in almost full Slaying gear. And yet if you have a single death or an Entropy goes off you'll fail the DPS check enrage timer. This is assuming its the parties first clear and they don't have AS3 drops yet. It's even worse if you've got a Paladin and don't have a Ninja. At this point you are praying to RNG that both hands High Five each other twice just to shave off an extra 1-2% HP.


The enrage timer should have been a little more forgiving for non-optimal party setups and a MT that actually gets to use Tank stance.

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Originally Posted by Alysanne

I don't understand why people think Steps of Faith was changed just because it was too "hard."

You did it once, and then no one wanted to do it again for their trial roulette when you could just get Garuda or something and be done in 3 minutes. There was no loot, no point in doing it more than once, and was a time investment at about 3x the other trials when successful, and 6x longer if you failed once. Most people weren't abandoning it because it was "hard," they did so because it was tedious and pointless.

Challenging content actually needs to have something attractive about it to keep people coming back.

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Ikr? Steps wasn't hard just poorly designed. Here you had a fight with no rewards, required for MSQ, no recovery if you missed a DK and if you failed at any point you had to wait till the end (roughly 12 mins) before attempting it again from the start. The only dungeon I could think of that was actually hard was Pharos pre-nerf. The first boss was the hardest dps check outside of Coil at the time and ppl complained.

@op; I haven't done AS since I stopped raiding after ARR but I have done Coil and I do agree that the story was what made it so appealing to try to finish. I never played 1.0 but I got a good idea of what happened by going through coil. Imo the best raids are T6-T9 pre-nerf. These should be the basis of all raids going forward. Some trash at the start with interesting backgrounds, T6 had invisible floors that appeared once you stepped on them and T7 was an elevator add rush. However given the nature of Alexander it's most likely that we will be inside the entire time meaning their creative influence is much more restrictive than Coil which expanded throughout Eorzea.

I would like to get into AS but I lack the incentive I had in ARR and given the inflexibility of raiding in this game, I would be forced to either A. work around a raid schedule (which I won't do anymore) or B. not bother with it. Guess which option I chose.

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

The main thing I agree with is the fact that raiding should not have become an unforgiving DPS check in Alex Savage. In Coil you could have a few deaths, mess up a few mechanics, and still recover. There were soft and hard enrage timers but your Tanks and Healers didn't have to turn themselves into full-time DPS in order to clear it. It helped a lot but it wasn't necessary.


In AS3 you're forced to put both Tanks in their DPS stance 95% of the fight in almost full Slaying gear. And yet if you have a single death or an Entropy goes off you'll fail the DPS check enrage timer. This is assuming its the parties first clear and they don't have AS3 drops yet. It's even worse if you've got a Paladin and don't have a Ninja. At this point you are praying to RNG that both hands High Five each other twice just to shave off an extra 1-2% HP.


The enrage timer should have been a little more forgiving for non-optimal party setups and a MT that actually gets to use Tank stance.

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I think this was a knee-jerk reaction to FCOB being cleared in a week. They simply decided to make it a gear/dps check rather than a skill/co-ordination check.

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Originally Posted by Alysanne

I don't understand why people think Steps of Faith was changed just because it was too "hard."

You did it once, and then no one wanted to do it again for their trial roulette when you could just get Garuda or something and be done in 3 minutes. There was no loot, no point in doing it more than once, and was a time investment at about 3x the other trials when successful, and 6x longer if you failed once. Most people weren't abandoning it because it was "hard," they did so because it was tedious and pointless.

Challenging content actually needs to have something attractive about it to keep people coming back.

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No, people jumped ship because most people couldn't clear it and if the trial roulette gave them SOF, they'd rather eat the penalty than waste time struggling with people who would never learn. This, in turn, created a situation where anyone who still needed the clear were boned because no one wanted to stay.

I just started Alexander savage recently but the fight is a joke, all of them. You just need to remove the dps check and is a faceroll... coil was more skill and teamwork. Alexander is not fun all and just doing it because there isn't anything better to do.

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Originally Posted by Shiki_Lockhart

I just started Alexander savage recently but the fight is a joke, all of them. You just need to remove the dps check and is a faceroll... coil was more skill and teamwork. Alexander is not fun all and just doing it because there isn't anything better to do.

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AS1 and AS2 are more along the lines of Pure DPS checks. AS3 actually incorporates quite a hefty amount of non-forgiving mechanics along with dps checks. lol