It's only a strategy to lose though. Spawn campers almost exclusively go after 2nd place to ensure the other team finishes the match sooner. It's not a strategy to win, it's essentially just teaming up with the current leader to get the match over with in a hurry and as a side effect prevent the current 2nd place team from actually playing the game as it's meant to be played.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zensho
I vote for cannons (modified to fire instantly and for excessive damage). They'd be totally useless for normal play, but would destroy spawn campers in a hurry (if any were so foolish). With that only hidden ninjas would be able to ambush you as you left the spawn area, though they could do something about that as well if they liked (ie. hide doesn't work within 'x' yalms of a spawn point).
Spawn Campers
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10-11-2015, 03:15 AMNutz
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10-11-2015, 04:40 AMVandrilWow. I have to admit that I wasn't expecting a solid answer, but this is as solid as it gets. I respect that, so I'll take this topic more seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Selli
I'm rather torn on this topic. On one hand, spawn camping is no fun for those being camped, and it certainly does feel to them that they're unable to actually participate in the match. On the other hand, going behind enemy lines and cutting off reinforcements is a classic war strategy that is very valid.
Ultimately, though, this should be decided by the Rule of Fun of game design - if it's not fun, don't have it. Or, in this case, if it ruins the fun for many people, don't have it. It is, in fact, no fun for those being camped, as they feel like they're missing out on the match entirely. That's nothing short of frustrating. As such, I agree that something should be done about the spawn camping.
I prefer this solution, as it puts taking out the spawn campers in the hands of the players. Two cannons would be good. The cannons should also have a special flare shot which can un-hide any hidden NIN in a very wide range (basically, a ranged, ground-targeted version of Detect with a ~10s CD from each cannon). This solution would not stop spawn camping entirely, but would give the camped players the proper tools to fully deal with the spawn campers, regardless of their numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutz
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10-11-2015, 04:45 AMCanadaneThen you simply have people waiting just outside the Bertha range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Februs
The only real way to counter some hard hitting spawn camping is to have people stop rushing out as soon as they respawn. But nobody wants to stay out of the action. -
10-11-2015, 05:33 AMDimitriiThe further away they have to stand from the spawn in hide the less likely they are gonna be able to intercept mounted players while hidden. They would have to start guessing as to what direction the player will be running to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadane
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10-11-2015, 09:00 AMStormrider
Weird In WoW i remember killing people right on top of the graveyard nonstop. Nothing like a group of twinks to make someones night horrible. I am not a fan of spawn camping. I don't see it as cheating or griefing, deaths equal points changing hands. If they remove the points lost fro dieing this wouldn't happen as much.
One, it is a good way to make sure a premade loses. The points lost from deaths and then points lost from nodes when they have to double back adds up. Two, I recently switched Grand companies but spawn camping was only common when a team made life miserable for a few matches or had been curb stomping everyone. I have been on nights where adder premade was crushing so everyone pushes and camps them like crazy or tries.
Also how do you know they don't want you to lose? I have literally been in matches where we were so mad at the second place team about 20 of us rolled up to the spawn in caves and killed them till the game ended. You would be amazed at how few people wait to group up or come back to help using return.
The best counter is vit healers and two dps. Full vit and 9 lustrate for a sch trumps 4 ninjas. Return is also usable in all frontlines. -
10-11-2015, 11:27 AMFebrusin addition to what Dimitrii said, cannons would also put a stop to relentless chasing. Any team being ganked by both GC's and pushed back to their spawn would have a method to turn the battle and stop needless spawn camping from a combination of two opposing teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadane
Also, any respawning players who hopped out of invincibility only to get pounced on before being able to regroup with their team, would have something of a "safe zone" that they could fall back to. Over eager Dps who chase for that kill would probably not notice they're being kited into cannon range. If they do notice and choose to wait just outside it, no big deal. They'd get into a staring contest with the respawns until the respawning players have enough numbers to brutalize the campers. It would basically force the respawning players to wait for reinforcements while under the safety of cannon fire. -
10-11-2015, 12:03 PMTriksteRLOLQuote:
Originally Posted by TwiissTwiiss
/10char -
10-11-2015, 07:54 PMSelliThank you, I appreciate that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandril
I play healer in FL a lot, so I'd be lying if I said I didn't die at least once a match (as much as I'd love to believe I'm super slick and can heal myself out of anything, in reality I am very squishy and the enemy team does not like my kind). As a healer, once you get numbered they kind of never unmark you and you get zerged or chain stunned/slept a lot. So I do a lot of running from spawn to nodes in a match that isn't playing out in the favor of my team. So it didn't take me long to pick up on what was going on with this new trend.
I remember spawn camping in level 50 FL a couple times (I didn't play FL as actively then as I do now, though), but I have only seen my GC do it once in Seal. I didn't find it particularly fun myself, as I didn't feel like we were really doing anything other than being a scary wall. They didn't leave their base because they couldn't fight us, and we couldn't hit them because they were on base. It was a lot of standing around for very little gain.Quote:
I'm rather torn on this topic. On one hand, spawn camping is no fun for those being camped, and it certainly does feel to them that they're unable to actually participate in the match. On the other hand, going behind enemy lines and cutting off reinforcements is a classic war strategy that is very valid.
I do understand that Ninjas get their kick out of it, because Hide is pretty limited in PvE content and really shines in PvP (similar to how AST's Aspected Benefic Shields were considered really bad for PvE when they were first released, but they were, and still are, amazing in PvP). However, the tactic Ninjas use for spawn camping can be just as easily applied to capturing nodes guarded by 1-8 people. A solo Ninja who knows what they're doing can easily take out 1-2 people guarding a node and a group of them could probably destroy an 8-man party taken by surprise. Which would probably benefit their GC more than getting, like, 15 points from spawn camping.
Thank you.Quote:
Ultimately, though, this should be decided by the Rule of Fun of game design - if it's not fun, don't have it. Or, in this case, if it ruins the fun for many people, don't have it. It is, in fact, no fun for those being camped, as they feel like they're missing out on the match entirely. That's nothing short of frustrating. As such, I agree that something should be done about the spawn camping.
I think the easiest way SE could elevate this issue without having to put too much time into it, would be to extend the invuln buff to last (I'm going to say, roughly) 3-5 seconds after leaving one's base. It should be long enough that one on a mount can nearly make it to the nearest node to their base (this probably wouldn't completely get rid of spawn camping, it would just make it increasingly more difficult to accomplish as the radius needed to be covered would be larger, but having too long of an invuln buff would make it OP, so balance would be very fine here). Since its impossible to get back into your base without dying (or using Return, which requires you to not be in combat), it would be hard to abuse something like this for a "rush" method (I mean, unless everyone is right in front of your spawn). However, that is the easy method.Quote:
I prefer this solution, as it puts taking out the spawn campers in the hands of the players. Two cannons would be good. The cannons should also have a special flare shot which can un-hide any hidden NIN in a very wide range (basically, a ranged, ground-targeted version of Detect with a ~10s CD from each cannon). This solution would not stop spawn camping entirely, but would give the camped players the proper tools to fully deal with the spawn campers, regardless of their numbers.
I think the cannon is an amazing idea. The cannon itself shouldn't do damage (if it did, one person would sit on cannon the whole game and teams would constantly try to push people toward their spawn, which would just create another issue), but it should a 360 degree detect (the shape would probably have to be adjusted to a more oval shape for caves as their spawn is in the middle of a long wall) and mark all enemy players within its radius on the map of their opposing GCs. They would be visible for 180 seconds (including enemies in Hide). The radius on the detect animation should be kept invisible to all players, just to avoid people learning its exact distance and spawn camping there. And the detect duration should be shortened to 30 seconds if more than 10 people (in the same GC) are within the radius to avoid GCs pushing an enemy into their spawn to make them all visible on their maps for 3 minutes, and same GC to avoid a 5+6 spawn camp sandwich. This would incredibly punish the spawn campers without actually doing damage to the players' HP. -
10-16-2015, 07:37 AMGastonIt made me so mad. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by TwiissTwiiss