If you're running dungeons at a regular pace, chances are the healer don't have time for that between pulls. I'd only take time reapplying with a particularly slow-moving party [excluding the tank who'll always get it before he runs]Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoli
I pretty much never bother unless Swiftcast or Lightspeed are up to Stoneskin on the move before the next pull.
I completely removed it in favor of Blizzard 2 on SCH a while ago and have never felt like something was missing.
Stoneskin is nice to have but you have to ponder its opportunity cost or lack thereof.
Stoneskin use.
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10-09-2015, 10:14 PMKerrigen
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10-09-2015, 10:20 PMReinhaYou can reapply SS on the tank just as the last enemy is about to die. Tank doesn't need healed during the last couple of seconds because non-combat regeneration will heal him fast enough between pulls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sida
Dps players can have their SS mid fight if they eat some damage. -
10-09-2015, 10:28 PMAtoli
Exactly like Reinha said. Reapply it for dps right when they lose it during the fight, reapply it for the tank just when the last monster dies (should be timed perfectly with regen running out too). If you did not have the time to do that because the pull was especially hard or you were very busy dpsing, Swiftcast/Lightspeed and you can apply it while the group is moving towards the next pull.
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10-09-2015, 10:32 PMAlphaSonic
Before a boss fight, and before a tank burster if i have time to reapply it. That's it.
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10-09-2015, 10:52 PMLyrica_Ashtine
Stoneskin's stupidly expensive for what it does and outside of endgame raid environment, it has nearly no purpose. Unless players are getting blown away in a single attack unmitigated, you may just as well heal them up instead. Which is both more MP efficient as well as GCD efficient.
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10-09-2015, 11:20 PMTwilite
Alright, thanks everyone.
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10-09-2015, 11:32 PMAylin
As an AST, I apply it on the tank before the very first pull, and use Swiftcast+Stoneskin to reapply it to the tank in between pulls. I try to apply it to the whole party before boss fights, but usually an overzealous, rushing tank puts the kibosh on that (I like to swap to nocturnal stance and bubble the party too... but I haven't had a tank wait the few seconds required for me to do that before a boss in a looong time).
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10-10-2015, 02:28 AMAtoliHealing requires a healing-friendly stance or it takes a lot of MP AND time to get everyone up again. I prefer not having to switch out of dps stance all the time just to rescue people who refuse to move out of aoes and stuff. Stoneskin + regen is a very useful combo to circumvent stance switching :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine
And if you are a healer who refuses to deal dmg, you have even more reason to keep SS up on everyone all the time, because you often have nothing to do anyway. -
10-10-2015, 03:18 AMLyrica_AshtineYou have it the other way around; it takes more time to apply stoneskin on everyone - or even on one person for that matter - than to heal them up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoli
On single target instance, a melee would get a Stoneskin worth about 1300 points of damage. On an equally geared healer, a single Cure/Benefic/Physick would be worth about 3400 HP recovery. That's 2100 recovered than prevented at half the MP cost. In cases of Scholars and Astrologians that's also 0.5s less GCD waste
In case of AoE, let's say 4 targets, that's 5600 points of mitigation (18000 HP tank, 12000 HP healer, 13000 HP DPS) and takes 10 seconds to cast as a White Mage or 12 seconds as a Scholar or Astrologian. A single (ET) Succor, Helios or Medica is good for 2400 HP recovery each or 9600 HP spread over 4 targets and takes significantly less time to cast.
As for healers who refuse to deal damage, the point still stands that Stoneskin has an ridiculous cost for it's effectiveness and in non endgame raid, application of it is a waste of time unless it's to prolong your time in Cleric's Stance. Inability to switch out of Cleric's Stance and making healing "inefficient" is a player issue, not a class problem. -
10-10-2015, 04:06 AMAtoliI never said I CAN'T switch out. I said I want to avoid doing it, because it's a dps loss when I do. The point isn't to have the whole group at full HP at all times. The point is to stay in cleric stance as long as possible before you have to switch back because it gets risky for someone. Let's go with the numbers you have up there - let's assume the mitigation is 1.3k dmg. That means even if he gets hit by something fairly hurting, the one who got hit still has 1.3k HP more than if there was no stoneskin. For most content that means the person has enough HP left so I can keep on dpsing without switching back. If I tried to heal them up WITHOUT switching out of cleric stance, it would take a lot longer and cost more MP because my heals are worth crap and heal like a few hundred HP in that case. So to apply the type of heal you talked about (3.4k cure/benefic/physick), I'd have to switch out of cleric stance first, heal them up, wait until I can switch back into cleric stance, and soon after have to switch out of it again as soon as someone gets hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine
Yes, it's called stance dancing, but if you spend the entire time just switching around, you deal a lot less dmg than if you were able to stay in cleric stance for a prolonged amount of time.
And for healers who refuse to dps: they just lazily sit around on a huge pool of mana anyway without doing anything but waiting for some dmg to heal away, the LEAST they can do is use every beneficial skill possible.
TL;DR:
Stoneskin -> dps get hurt but not so bad you need to switch stance and heal them.
No Stoneskin -> dps get hurt enough that it's dangerous to not switch stance and heal them.
As simple as that.