Why do the writers hate Foulques?

What do you mean where did the cliff come from? You fight right next to the cliff.

Foulques story is sad, not badly told. What happened to him was not something just yesterday. Foulques was a complex issue but he was punished for a crime he did commit. He was betrayed by friends in the lancers and the former leader was wrong to judge him by his race. However as I said earlier, the people involved and the people he targeted weren't the same. That's very apparent.

Again, a tragic tale and a badly told tale aren't the same thing.

@Naunet: The fact you see him as sympathetic shows that there was an intention to create player sympathy towards him. His story clearly showed that racism lead to his disturbed state.

Further, Tragic stories aren't about being dismissive but learning from. Knowing how such stories end is the reason why it is important to stop them from happening in the first place. From a narrative standpoint I think it also has a important role in showing players that the WoL, as powerful and world changing has they are, cant save everyone and are only human in the end. That makes others important. It means you need others. Its not just about the WoL. It also tells your character that they need to be stronger. Maybe next time if you are you could get through to Foulques before its too late.

This is the burden of a hero and its one that comes up again and again. For all the WoL tries their is always those they cant save but that only gives them reason to try harder. It makes those tragedies not be in vain. As I said before HW is full of these stories.

The WoL can't make cultures change by force. They can only lead by example and try to empower that change by aiding those among those cultures that are striving for change. Also on your comparison to a puppy, a dog that attacks every human can't just be let to do it's thing even if it was abused by its owner.

There are quite a lot of quests that touch on issues the city states have. Hell, even the Hildibrand quests do.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

What do you mean where did the cliff come from? You fight right next to the cliff.

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Just honestly quoting an honest reaction. Depending on the time of day, the cliff really isn't that apparent, but whether you noticed it or not beforehand it is a pretty lame plot device.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Again, a tragic tale and a badly told tale aren't the same thing.

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But being tragic does not automatically make a story good, either.

I can't bring myself to feel very sorry for someone that tried to feed me to a pack of wolves. I never did a damn thing to this dude. Hell, I never met him before! I don't care what he went through, that's just not cool at all. >.<

it's amusing, i don't belittle you when i say this, i did start as gridanian with the start of the V1, the fears of the stranger in the V1 was far worse. but the reason was shown better, the spirit of the forest are kinda godlike, gridanian are simply living there because they follow the will of the spirit. 1 spirit angry can simply wipe the whole town if he want. with time this fears of this have change into fear of the stranger since they often don't follow the rule of the forest and can anger the spirit to the point of no return.

other point, racism is not only seen into Gridania, you can see it into ul'dah too, the ala migghan are treated like pest most of the time. racism is one of the the heavy subject with the corruption that you can been seen into the different city. well less in limsa lominsa since they only care from them own freedom then *shrugs*

when you know the story of gridania (and do the other quest of the city and class from it) you can understand that Foulques was a broken person, but it was a situation that was coming from before the present time. if you do the archer quest line you encounter a elezen quite arrogant saying that miqote can't learn them way to hunt, but as you progress you see him change and a lot of quest around gridania are pointing this, the city is changing, slowly welcoming people, even trying to correct some old believing.... like the banishing of the people marked by the spirit as filthy. (was a huge story in the V1 this :x quite sad)

do everything is fair and nice? no, do foulques don't deserve a better ending? no he did get what he did deserve. he can have all the good reason of the world, it don't justify him act. that something that need to be understand, what did happend to him was sad, tragic, but him way to face it was wrong, in sooo many way... he didn't try to see if the new lancer guild was like the old one, he was desillusioned to be in him right and that him way was good. putting people in danger, harming people. because you was insulted and betrayed, it don't give you all the right to act worst than the people that did you do wrong.

Foulques was wrong, not in him reason, but in him way to do thing.

Because racist much (like Archer quest lol).

Yeah, with the exception of the DoL/DoH all class/job quest you're discriminated against in Gridania.

Still, while the whole "courage" deal that Ywain kept talking about was rather bland, the ending more than made up for it. I wonder if his friend that betrayed him was Laurentius, seems like his MO

I leveled DRG on an alt and have been slowly going through LNC on my main here.

Aaaand I see where the OP is coming from. Nidhogg and his like are all "wronged" characters also that lash out irrationally but the game does a good job showing us that their story is tragic, even if their response is still wrong. The backstory for Foulques is sad but it is not framed in a way that paints him as tragic. The game paints him as bad. And if you pay attention it can be uncomfortable because unlike other class villains Foulques of the Mists ostensibly likes you. He felt bad for stealing from the Guild but let's remember he wasn't the only one picking over the coffers. He was just the only one who felt guilty enough to come forward about it.Other Lancers SAID they'd come forward too but when the time came they all pointed at the Duskwight and drove him out. I can see why that would be upsetting. And the Lancer's Guild never seems to answer for this. Ywain is apparently aware of the whole thing and does nothing. The Wood Wailers have similar problems with racism in their ranks but the Archery quests at least deal with this. It's a prominent aspect of that story. In the Lancers quests it mostly just felt like "Foulques = bad because story says so".

MOSTLY, though, MOSTLY I can tell you Foulques was handled poorly by his own plot because I play a Duskwight. I had this weird feeling that was the wrong thing to be every time I did a Lancer quest. They're just waiting for something to happen, then they are going to throw rocks at me...

There are things like this through the job quests. What stands out to me playing a Wildwood Archer, and having the other Wildwood Archer say you could never understand the ways of his people. YOU ARE HIS PEOPLE. Hell, I bet you could practically CLONE him using character creator, and he would whine about how you're different.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Just honestly quoting an honest reaction. Depending on the time of day, the cliff really isn't that apparent, but whether you noticed it or not beforehand it is a pretty lame plot device.

But being tragic does not automatically make a story good, either.

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I understand. I was just pointing out that the cliff was there. Its not like it came from no where.

Also I was arguing that Tragic doesn't mean bad. I never meant to imply that tragic always means good. Quite the opposite. Tragic tales can be awful. Tragedy isn't good for just Tragedy's sake.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

I leveled DRG on an alt and have been slowly going through LNC on my main here.

Aaaand I see where the OP is coming from. Nidhogg and his like are all "wronged" characters also that lash out irrationally but the game does a good job showing us that their story is tragic, even if their response is still wrong. The backstory for Foulques is sad but it is not framed in a way that paints him as tragic. The game paints him as bad. And if you pay attention it can be uncomfortable because unlike other class villains Foulques of the Mists ostensibly likes you. He felt bad for stealing from the Guild but let's remember he wasn't the only one picking over the coffers. He was just the only one who felt guilty enough to come forward about it.Other Lancers SAID they'd come forward too but when the time came they all pointed at the Duskwight and drove him out. I can see why that would be upsetting. And the Lancer's Guild never seems to answer for this. Ywain is apparently aware of the whole thing and does nothing. The Wood Wailers have similar problems with racism in their ranks but the Archery quests at least deal with this. It's a prominent aspect of that story. In the Lancers quests it mostly just felt like "Foulques = bad because story says so".

MOSTLY, though, MOSTLY I can tell you Foulques was handled poorly by his own plot because I play a Duskwight. I had this weird feeling that was the wrong thing to be every time I did a Lancer quest. They're just waiting for something to happen, then they are going to throw rocks at me...

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Foulques actions are what made him bad. One thing you need to remember is the events that happened to Foulques happened some time ago. We have no idea how things have changed in the Guild since then. We do know that Ywain hasn't been Guild Leader for a very long time. He is a retired Wood Wailer. Foulques spent years in jail and time since then training. Things may have already changed since his time. They had in Gridania in general who in the past even saw any outsiders negatively. Certainly Ywain and the Lancers we deal with don't show any inherent racism during the quests.

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Originally Posted by MatthiasS

There are things like this through the job quests. What stands out to me playing a Wildwood Archer, and having the other Wildwood Archer say you could never understand the ways of his people. YOU ARE HIS PEOPLE. Hell, I bet you could practically CLONE him using character creator, and he would whine about how you're different.

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Not necessarily. The WoL isn't native to the city states. Wether they come from small villages outside the jurisdiction of the City states or from outside of Eorzea is left up to the players. After all Ishgard are Wildwood Elezen too but they wouldn't be called the same people. Likewise Keepers of the Moon from Shalayan will be different from Keepers native to the lands near the twelveswood.

Initially, I don't like this "topic" at all. I have no <3 to the person who "oh, dear, it would seem you have enraged the beast." Then he left me alone fighting. This person says he's fearless, but inside he is a coward. During the battle you knows it, master saw it, and in the final cs you saw it.

pointed his weapons and hurt/kill many lancers is also wrong. No matter how you got insulted in school or life, you bring the gun and shoot everyone is wrong. That action for the final outcome doesn't matter what was before. no matter how wrong the other ppl did before didn't make the person's misbehavior right. There are tons npc in HW have bad youth/ discriminated life, but they work their way up.

Later... Ya indeed the lore masters indeed hate Foulques. They created everything includes Foulques. maybe we should just say initially just a bunch 0s and 1s. then they decided to name this 0s and 1s Foulques. There got to be a common enemy pointed to or we will just end up like 1.0 story that we babysit bunch kids and happily after that... So they put this 0s and 1s, happened to be Foulques, as the bad guy. So, ya lore masters hate Foulques.

As history stuffs, there is no right or wrong. Just which side of story you want to believe more.
People already took their sides, so why ask the form then debate, especially toward the friction char. Writers can bring out other 5+ points why Foulques is a bad person in seconds. and they hate this bunch of 1s and 0s, or say the thing named Foulques.