There's an old saying "three is a crowd" - Not enough tanks?

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Originally Posted by Alahra

Snip.

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About the WAR TP, that's my point. WAR didn't need Equilibrium's TP. It is a point of exaggeration. WAR's TP is an endless pit without Equilibrium unless the WAR has to spam Overpower for whatever reason. Since that is irrelevant to raids (A2S and T4 being the only exceptions), it doesn't matter. People thinking WAR is a better OT because of Equilibrium is just baseless and stupid.

WAR is better suited for MT than it is OT. WAR has the most available damage mitigation options. WAR has the easiest time stance swapping allowing it to "fit in" bursts of damage or mitigation as needed. This same point leads to highest MT DPS. Only problem to WAR MT is its strict GCD to GCD management putting it at being a riskier option than the other two.

PLD on the other hand is better suited for OT. PLD's CDs are strong but they are also long. PLD has massive utility they can access easier as OT than MT. Cover is OP.

DRK is the black sheep. It suffers badly in physical fights. It runs out of TP very fast as an OT too with no options to mitigate TP expenditure. It is currently made relevant because it handles magical bursts slightly better than PLD with a 10~30% more mitigation per buster. But that nets you less than 5% overall damage taken difference. If DRK didn't do 2~3% more DPS than PLD and the majority of tank busters weren't magical, DRK would be the one out of place in current content. That is an underlying problem that seriously needs attention from SE imo.
EDIT: In the best CD rotations, DRK hardly mitigates 8% more than PLD on any single Buster. And on some it mitigates 100% less (Since PLD uses HG in its rotations now). For reference on numbers and examples on rotations: Check this post(also by me :p).

AST being sup-bar to SCHs and WHMs can be attributed to the things you mentioned. But also let's not forget that WHM's more potent multi Regen effects and SCH's more potent heals/shields along with Fairy support healing allows for less hands on healing and more DPS while an AST can't afford to stop healing.

SE gave a "good" reason why AST shouldn't heal as much as WHM and SCH in vacuum. The card buffs ARE strong. But card buffs suffer from RNG and you can't have the card you want when you want it. Furthermore, AST is hindered by far more things than just healing potency. AST single target DPS is lower than WHM and its AoE DPS is lowest among the three.

IMO AST needs major fixes. DRK needs to be looked at on different levels. PLD is fine but QoL changes are always welcome. I do not mind more DPS on PLD if it forgoes some of its safety.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

About the WAR TP, that's my point. WAR didn't need Equilibrium's TP. It is a point of exaggeration. WAR's TP is an endless pit without Equilibrium unless the WAR has to spam Overpower for whatever reason. Since that is irrelevant to raids (A2S and T4 being the only exceptions), it doesn't matter. People thinking WAR is a better OT because of Equilibrium is just baseless and stupid.

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It's not *solely* because of Equilibrium. It's Equilibriium, and their higher DPS. You're also over-exaggerating WAR's TP without Equilibrium. While they do have more longevity than PLD and DRK before considering it, they can and do run out of TP, especially since they tend to stack some Skill Speed for the optimal Berserk rotation. They just last longer than the others.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

WAR's TP is an endless pit without Equilibrium unless the WAR has to spam Overpower for whatever reason.

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That's false.

EDIT:
I did some personal testing just now. Deliverance & its related moves help a lot compared to what warriors were like before HW.

I was able to last about 8:30 before bottoming out on a dummy under these conditions:
2.43s GCD
Use of buffs to gain Abandon stacks (Berserk, Raw Intuition, Vengeance, Infuriate when appropriate)
Use of Fracture
Use of Fell Cleave
No use of Equilibrium

Sword Oath
Deals additional damage with a potency of 75 after each auto-attack.
Cannot be used with Shield Oath.
Effect ends upon reuse.

Shelltron
Blocks the next physical attack.
Additional Effect: Partial MP restored upon block
Additional Effect: Restores 100 TP if TP is <35% upon block
Duration: 10s

Blood Price
Restores partial MP when damage is taken.
Additional Effect: Restores up to 100 TP if TP is <35% when damage is taken.
Duration: 15s

Maybe? Yes, I know some of these sound bad but it's a start rather than an argument. The reason I gave a % requirement is because Equilibrium can be used as either a heal or TP restoration and not both, and you know...balance issues are a thing.

Edit: Also the reason for only 100 TP is due to Shelltron and Blood Price being on 30s CD while Equilibrium is on 60s CD.

The issue with your suggestions is that PLD and DRK's major TP issues aren't when maintanking, because PLD loses Shield Swipe and DRK has to use Blood Weapon when offtanking, which means they bottom out faster. Your suggestions are designed purely for MTing which wouldn't solve the biggest issues.

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Originally Posted by NFaelivrin

The issue with your suggestions is that PLD and DRK's major TP issues aren't when maintanking, because PLD loses Shield Swipe and DRK has to use Blood Weapon when offtanking, which means they bottom out faster. Your suggestions are designed purely for MTing which wouldn't solve the biggest issues.

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Good point! Didn't think of that D: How about:

Shelltron
Blocks the next physical attack.
Additional Effect: Partial MP restored upon block
Duration: 10s
Restores 100 TP when used with Sword Oath.

Blood Weapon
Increases attack speed by 10% and converts physical damage dealt into MP.
Duration: 15s
Cannot be used while under the effect of Grit.
Restores 200 140 TP when used with Darkside.

Hope this sounds better. Again Shelltron only recovers 100 because of the 30s Recast and Blood Weapon recover 200 140 because it has a Recast of 40s. The TP recovery effect of Blood Weapon should be a post-50 trait, in my opinion anyway. Seriously I hope I did a better job this time on coming up with a better idea D:

EDIT: Fixed incorrect information and had a TP restoration adjustment for DRK for CD:TP ratio. Thanks Leidiriv for correcting me! :)

Blood Weapon has a 40 second CD, not 60, so it should give about 140 TP if you want a CD:TP ratio that's static across all 3 tanks.

Yea I was looking at an untraited Blood Weapon >.> but I fixed it. Thanks for the correction! :)

I think the TP problems are there because we already have other jobs to patch it.

While tanks are OT, it just means that they're in an 8 men content, which means there's four DPS, which means statics.

I think NIN, BRD and MCH are there BECAUSE of tank's and healer's issues. Especially NIN with their enmity tools and Goad.

IMO, Equilibrium for WAR is suited because WAR uses purely TP while the other two have uses for MP, especially in AOE situations.

It promotes team work and dependency among roles. It used to be just Tank + healer, while DPS just... DPS. Now, all DPS has some kind of utility that cover other roles' issues such as TP/MP management, buffs, and enmity management.

I'd say leave the TP issues alone. We have other jobs, teammates, we can and should rely on for that issue.