I feel like my threat as paladin, trash and boss alike, is uncomfortably low.

All these PLD complaint threads lately. I think people aren't doing it right. PLD is my main. I haven't had all these issues people are having. One thing, that people may not be doing is rotating through the mob. If you pull a mob, as others have stated, shield lob, flash x 3, then go into rotation, after one or two rotations you need to switch to another monster and work on that one. With all the AOE's going off and healing, hate is being generated by other players on those other monsters. If you stay on one monster until its dead, yes you will most likely lose hate on the others. Constantly rotate through the mob and you should hardly ever lose hate. In light of other threads debating the whole STR vs VIT, your job is not to kill the monsters but keep the hate on them, don't worry about DPSing a single monster down, rotate to the next, even if it appears no one is hitting it.

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Originally Posted by Ketsuyame

THEN proceed to raw rage of Halone each mob once. Meaning to Use the skill without the full combo.

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/slap ... /slap /slap

Do the normal rage combo while tab targetting between each mob, ending with rage on the one that people are bursting down don't do what ketsu is suggesting here. 2+ GCDs of 100 potency swings even with the enmnity modifier is pitiful compared to tab targetting a full combo.

I'll second the notion of not using goring blade on trash and sticking with the RoH combos and flash. Trash in my experience tends to die very quickly before the DoT can really do it's thing, better to just build more threat so the dps can go to town.

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Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

All these PLD complaint threads lately. I think people aren't doing it right. PLD is my main. I haven't had all these issues people are having. One thing, that people may not be doing is rotating through the mob. If you pull a mob, as others have stated, shield lob, flash x 3, then go into rotation, after one or two rotations you need to switch to another monster and work on that one. With all the AOE's going off and healing, hate is being generated by other players on those other monsters. If you stay on one monster until its dead, yes you will most likely lose hate on the others. Constantly rotate through the mob and you should hardly ever lose hate. In light of other threads debating the whole STR vs VIT, your job is not to kill the monsters but keep the hate on them, don't worry about DPSing a single monster down, rotate to the next, even if it appears no one is hitting it.

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I've never had to flash so many times to hold a pack/packs, I picked this up when everyone was out gearing me but I felt weird- like everyone was racing you to aggro (which never happened for me before). Now that I have mostly law I'm back to flash once in a while, which makes me happy since flash doesn't have a feeling of oomph. I prefer to use it for maximum blind opportunity (and to keep aoe aggro ofc!, but unless I've got some awesome BLM and SMN I don't really need to spam it).

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

I'll second the notion of not using goring blade on trash and sticking with the RoH combos and flash. Trash in my experience tends to die very quickly before the DoT can really do it's thing, better to just build more threat so the dps can go to town.

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I like to put it on the targets with the most health after establishing aggro (it tends to have like 0-5 seconds before dying), then I generally only RoH when single target DD is really picking up aggro otherwise I manage cooldowns and go for RA.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I've never had to flash so many times to hold a pack/packs, I picked this up when everyone was out gearing me but I felt weird- like everyone was racing you to aggro (which never happened for me before). Now that I have mostly law I'm back to flash once in a while, which makes me happy since flash doesn't have a feeling of oomph. I prefer to use it for maximum blind opportunity (and to keep aoe aggro ofc!, but unless I've got some awesome BLM and SMN I don't really need to spam it).

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The 3 times just gives that extra enmity buffer on all the monsters in the mob, gives that extra second or two until I can hit them with a rotation. If it's a small mob 3 or less monsters 2 flashes is good enough.

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Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

The 3 times just gives that extra enmity buffer on all the monsters in the mob, gives that extra second or two until I can hit them with a rotation. If it's a small mob 3 or less monsters 2 flashes is good enough.

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I suppose it also depends on how gung-ho your DD is. Most of the DD in my experience via DF while not terrible (I've had a lot of good experiences) will not actually go full metal (raging strikes is a wild occurrence).

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Here is my secret top tip, DPS hate me.

Spin the mobs, spin them all, spin everything all the time so no one can hit positional requirements, watch your aggro lead soar! ;)

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You monster!

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Try to calculate the enmity generated by any DPS, and you'll see they're still far behind us.

In fact, they haven't received that much more, potency wise. Full Thrust is still the highest potency for DRG, and Battle Litany don't give a constant boost.

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That is not what I mean. An increase in average potency per gcd (even slight) for DpS is an increase in average enmity per gcd at the same time. This means it takes fewer gcds for a DpS hitting a target that you are not focusing on with RoH to catch up or exceed the enmity you generated with your 3 or 4 flashes.

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If you see really big numbers nowadays, it's because the attack power is higher, so for the same potency, you do much more damage. Which is also true for PLD since they receive the exact same attack boost.

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False. Unless the tank is in Str accessories, tank enmity generation is not growing at the same rate as that of true DpSs. At 54, a full geared i133 a tank wearing Vit accessories has 120 less strength from gear than a Dragoon or Monk. That is a significant amount that combined with increased average potencies can lead to tanks that have yet to change from their level 50 rotations to have enmity trouble. The Enmity leads tanks can generate are still very large, but it now takes more actions to build up enough enmity to prevent peeling for the same length of time.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

That is not what I mean. An increase in average potency per gcd (even slight) for DpS is an increase in average enmity per gcd at the same time. This means it takes fewer gcds for a DpS hitting a target that you are not focusing on with RoH to catch up or exceed the enmity you generated with your 3 or 4 flashes.

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The problem here is your "focus". Why should a DPS go medieval on a target you're not focused on ?
If you pulled an entire group, then DPS will use their AoE, resulting in far lower potency. Thus you can keep aggro with CoS and Flash spamming.
If not, then your DPS should focus on the same target as you.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

False. Unless the tank is in Str accessories, tank enmity generation is not growing at the same rate as that of true DpSs.

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With a full set 130, a tank had 269 STR bonus while a DPS had 385. It means that a DPS gained 43% more STR from gear alone.
At lvl 60 with a full 190 set (Which is technically impossible for DPS now because of the two rings), a tank will have 385 STR bonus while a DPS whill have 663...thus 43% more STR.
So the ratio between the two is still the same.

I think the problem might be that you're using flash too much. While watchign the hate meters I notice flash doesn't do a whole lot. RoH is our real threat move, even savage blade doesn't do that much.

What I do, is Shield lob while running, circle, flash, then go into tab targeting RoH combos, using circle on cooldown. If dps has 30% or more of their hate bar empty I'll start working in goring blade combos.