With all these astrologian complain threads

Well, fairy aside, there were topics such as these:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ing-throughput

It wasn't limited to the fairy mechanics itself. And while I have no documented "proof" of conversations, there was a lot of scholar hate back with Titan HM when it was actually "hard mode" back then - One example.

As for any "weaker than this or that" arguments, I'll hold onto that myself for now. I've hardly geared up my astrologian and haven't even gotten all my healing classes to 60 yet. But as for level 50 content, Astrologian's only problem I can name right now would be the lack of Gravity when synced down to 50 or less :P

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Does anyone else notice a trend here? Remember Scholar all the way back with 2.0? This is pretty much an iteration of Scholar's time of infancy. A lot of people complaining about the class, till a bunch of famous endgame raiders were utilising the class in a way that it became a new meta and suddenly became incredibly popular.

So rather than opening up a text book, flip to the page you need and claim "you don't get it" like some student, thoroughly test and trial the class. Astrologian can go into many directions, just find the right one suitable for you.

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I will admit that I don't find AST the best class, but I am determined to make it work for me, as the whole card thing seems really fun.

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Originally Posted by Ayrie

I think AST is largely going to be restricted by Lumineferous Aether.

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It's tough to say exactly how true this will be. At the end of the day, this is AST's only true MP restoration skill. We can Ewer ourselves to reduce the cost, and use Spear to get LA back online faster, as well as Essential Dignity. I think Essential Dignity's usage is pretty nuanced too, where we need to squeeze extra (free) healing potency out of it without putting someone in a critical, potentially deadly position. It doesn't seem like a good ability to sit on either, while it makes for a decent panic button, you want to stay ahead of the game on AST. Free, high potency heals are certainly a great way to conserve MP, and getting it off as often as possible during an encounter could prove pretty important. Most of the time that I've run low on MP on AST is due to others making mistakes, which are harder to correct on AST compared to SCH or WHM.

I'm sticking with my AST until the bitter end. I think what worries a lot of people is that a basic raid composition is 2 healers. Pre-HW you could take one of each and be fine, solved arguments and so on. Now there's 3 healers and 2 slots so people are worrying that other classes will be chosen over them due to not feeling as powerful enough, or because others don't understand how the class works and views it as subpar.

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Originally Posted by Seryl199

Most of the time that I've run low on MP on AST is due to others making mistakes, which are harder to correct on AST compared to SCH or WHM.

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So much this. ASTs just can't power through a mechanic hiccup anywhere near as easily. It's so easy to see even in 4-mans.

What I can see is SCH/diurnal AST in raids though.

Actually, to play Scholar properly, micromanaging your pets and timing abilities plus throwing out DPS is actually not that simple. Add into the fact that Lustrate has been nerfed meaning no healing in cleric stance means more stance dancing and more chance of a screw up. True they do have the MP boost of Aetherflow, but a lot of their abilities i.e., bane, Lustrate, Indomibility(think I misspelled that last one) require the aetherflow stacks, which means you can't throw out heavy duty party wide healing constantly like a WHM can.
My personal opinion is that its more complex than WHM when played properly.

I agree with the assessment that SCH had some minor troubles in 2.0, but it was mostly a "learn to play" -issue and misconceptions of the job having been cemented at large, which spawned some prejudice. It was around the end of 2.0 and the start of 2.1 when SCH started being taken more seriously by people, albeit it wasn't buffed much around this time. (Some fairy fixes and Lustrate being buffed from 20% to 25% - that was it). I was maining SCH in 2.0, but also played on WHM a lot on demand, due to some of the aforementioned reasons. (And because the 240 potency Holy was too good for fodder speedruns then, lol).

I have been mildly amused by the AST complaining - I think there are some tweaks they can make to it, but the job is fine. It's a combination of people not being able to optimize the job and then people thinking it is just a middleman healer job that fills in whatever void you have without a WHM/SCH. Whether you are a WHM or a SCH that is partnered up with an AST, you might have to make some slight alterations to your game and not be like, "hey, this feels different than it does with a SCH/WHM", all the while trying to emulate your healing game of when you heal with a SCH/WHM.

I'm only lvl 33 AST at the moment (had to level my SCH first!), but I've had some intense discussions about it with my co-healer(s) and other people in my FC - been simulating it a lot, listened my friends and observed. My healing has been fine too, as a SCH, when partnered up with my group's ex-WHM who rerolled AST now. And our synergy is not even at 100% yet. (Speaking about the new EX primals in which we've healed together so far).

AST seems fine, but my final judgment will be reserved until we see how punishing Savage Alex is. :p

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Originally Posted by Ashquar

Actually, to play Scholar properly, micromanaging your pets and timing abilities plus throwing out DPS is actually not that simple. Add into the fact that Lustrate has been nerfed meaning no healing in cleric stance means more stance dancing and more chance of a screw up. True they do have the MP boost of Aetherflow, but a lot of their abilities i.e., bane, Lustrate, Indomibility(think I misspelled that last one) require the aetherflow stacks, which means you can't throw out heavy duty party wide healing constantly like a WHM can.
My personal opinion is that its more complex than WHM when played properly.

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I don't think anyone is saying a SCH is easy at the skill ceiling. How is that really relevant for this topic, though?

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Originally Posted by fanservice

So much this. ASTs just can't power through a mechanic hiccup anywhere near as easily. It's so easy to see even in 4-mans.

What I can see is SCH/diurnal AST in raids though.

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I second this (and the quoted text). Hopefully I'll be able to bring Astrologian into raid, but that all depends on my raid leader. *pout*

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Originally Posted by Tranquil

I don't think anyone is saying a SCH is easy at the skill ceiling. How is that really relevant for this topic, though?

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They were replying to this (incorrect) statement

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I think that another part of the complaints stems from a lot of people who main SCH. SCH is easy as hell to play, in fact the easiest healer in the game.

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Originally Posted by Ashquar

Actually, to play Scholar properly, micromanaging your pets and timing abilities plus throwing out DPS is actually not that simple. Add into the fact that Lustrate has been nerfed meaning no healing in cleric stance means more stance dancing and more chance of a screw up. True they do have the MP boost of Aetherflow, but a lot of their abilities i.e., bane, Lustrate, Indomibility(think I misspelled that last one) require the aetherflow stacks, which means you can't throw out heavy duty party wide healing constantly like a WHM can.
My personal opinion is that its more complex than WHM when played properly.

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Well no one said it's any less complicated :p

In my case, I've been SCH dpsing dungeons and raids when I can since 2.0, and the lustrate nerf is a bit of an inconvenience, but not having the luxury to do that damage at all and get away with it as much when playing AST actually feels awkward. I think I'd say the same if I bothered playing WHM. I'm just that comfortable with SCH at this point that the skill ceiling is what keeps me into it.

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Originally Posted by Lycinder

They were replying to this (incorrect) statement

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Oh...