Are the Twelve Primals too?

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Originally Posted by myahele

Somebody mentioned that Atomos is a primal also, since in WoD we face Atomos Prime and that the crystal was actually Atomos?

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Atomos has been confirmed to be a voidsent in the past. I suspect that a prime is in some unconfirmed way an essence from which a projection is established in an unconfirmed manner. In World of Darkness, the Prime (visually a crystal) was feeding aether to allow the Atomos to manifest.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Atomos has been confirmed to be a voidsent in the past. I suspect that a prime is in some unconfirmed way an essence from which a projection is established in an unconfirmed manner. In World of Darkness, the Prime (visually a crystal) was feeding aether to allow the Atomos to manifest.

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Atomos was called as Voidsent in the final days of 1.23(for those that didn't know). Also remember there were 3 Atomos in the LotA. Maybe Atomos Prime is the source and the others clones, like the trash fights having clones of LotA and ST bosses?

Basically just saying the same thing as Anonymoose here, just adding in a few more examples of possible clones or projections.

Technically....NO Because for a deity to be called a primal it needs to be summand vie athear faith/worship and become a corporal being as in made flesh vie athear. They wernt fully aummand in the end of the 6th era only their power so no they aren't.

I like the idea that Ramuh, Garuda and friends are the 'gods' of the beastmen in the same way that the Twelve are the 'gods' of the Eorzean people. Presumably this presupposes that - as Moose said - 'something' exists on another plane - the aetherial plane? - that is the essence of each of them. Summoning one of these essences creates a physical form that is what we call a Primal. The idea that gods are created by belief and prayer is one I've come across a few times in my reading on myth, religion and psychology (though whether those writers think that these gods can claim an actual reality in the way it seems they can in Hydaelyn is another question XD).

Presumably Zodiark and Hydaelyn herself are a notch up the ladder from the Twelve? And King Mog & Shiva a step down - maybe on the way to god-hood if the belief and prayer is strong enough, lasts long enough? What about Midgardsormr? His relationship to Hydaelyn fascinates me; I feel as though he talks to her almost as though they're equals. And Odin and Bahamut are Elder Primals just because of their longevity?
What happens to these 'gods' if belief and prayer in them diminishes?

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Originally Posted by Elladie

What happens to these 'gods' if belief and prayer in them diminishes?

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they would stay on the aether stream , forgotten forever! bound to roam in oblivion for eternity!

as far i i know from mainstory lore and smn quest, primals once defeated are returned to the aether source and only with enough crystals can they be fully summoned again. summoners can tap into this aether stream and channel into certain primals aether but since you dont have a massive amount of crystals you can only get an egi manifestation.

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Originally Posted by Elladie

I like the idea that Ramuh, Garuda and friends are the 'gods' of the beastmen in the same way that the Twelve are the 'gods' of the Eorzean people.

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Yes, they all sitting around the Feymarch hanging together... Menphina, Shiva. and Garuda discuss how hard it is to find decent footwear, and Ifrit and Titan keep having to apologize to Halone and Rhalgr for missing triple triad night because they keep being summoned...

According to Gaius Van Baelsar, the twelve and primals are all considered "Eikons", the term used by Beastkin when speaking of their respective gods.

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Originally Posted by Gaius Van Baelsar

“In Eorzea, the beast tribes often summon gods to fight in their stead - though your comrades only rarely respond in kind. Strange is it not? Are the “Twelve” otherwise engaged? I was given to understand they were your protectors. If you truly believe them to be your guardians, why do you not repeat the same trick that served you so well at Carteneau, and call them down? They will answer-so long as you lavish them with crystals and gorge them on aether! Your gods are no different from those of the beasts - eikons, every one! Accept but this, and you will see how Eorzea’s faith is bleeding the land dry.”

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That is the best answer I can give for OP's question.

That said... anyone who has died in the past can feasibly become a primal given enough wishing + aetherial energy (be it from crystals, or the planet itself, re: Louisiox's stave).

And apparently (at least) elder primals can stick around indefinitely under certain conditions. A sword (Odin), really? A sword is a primal?

Even the Blade of Aether is apparently a primal... based on what is necessary to summon it against Lahabrea & Nabriales...

Everything is a primal.

After all, every time you die, you return to the aether, and get reconstituted at your most recent 'home'.

Lifestream, gotta love it.

Gauis isn't exactly a netural party; he's trying to sway the WoL to his side.

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Originally Posted by Grayve

Gauis isn't exactly a netural party; he's trying to sway the WoL to his side.

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True, but the similarities are blatantly clear. If it was a lie, there was enough accuracy in his claims to largely rule out deceit.

One of the issues is we are still hazy on the true nature of Primals. The one trait they seem to share its the disruption to the Aether when they are summoned. Beyond that we have a lot of variety. Shiva for example was very different to any other primal we have seen cause she possessed someone rather than existing independent of them.

I'm hoping we will learn more in Heavensward. Bahamut's story may hold keys. For example, was Bahamut purely a construct of the Dragon's faith or was he really the original Bahamut, called back from beyond the grave and turned into a primal?