MSQ Questions (MAJOR Spoilers)

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

By having the meetings in Ul'dah, you find a certain number of conveniences. For one, the Gridanians and Lominsans travel roughly equal distance; it's a crossroads. A smaller point, but possibly just as relevant, the Fragrant Chamber (unlike the Lotus Stand or the Bridge), actually has enough seats for everyone (and their discussions tend to be quite lengthy, even if we only see the important bits). With Ul'dah being the Alliance's bankroller, the risk seems rather small (most of the time) considering that the Syndicate is unlikely to sabotage its own investments.

In the end, was any of the information potentially overheard in the Fragrant Chamber directly responsible for any of the outcomes?

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Meh, the chairs are a non-point (if this weren't a video game, anyway). Both of the other cities have standing armies, have some of the privates put out some chairs, problem solved. I also assume that travel is mostly accomplished by airship, so one destination shouldn't be much more inconvenient than any other.

As for whether anything said in the Fragrant Chamber led to 2.55's events. . .we don't know. I wouldn't doubt it, though.

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Originally Posted by Syfer22

Party aside, however, they did also have a few leader meetings in Ul'Dah as well which are among some of the ones I didn't understand since they knew Ul'Dah was compromised. I do see what you mean about the victory feast, though, and that's a good point.

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Well, 5 minutes on the Ul'dahn streets will tell you the place is corrupt as all hell - but nobody, unless you were incredibly savvy or paranoid, was expecting the power play at the victory feast.

As to why they tend to use the Fragrant Chamber for meetings, well, it's the only facility that can comfortably accommodate the delegates necessary for a proper "Alliance" meeting. For one of those we need at least half a dozen seats or so (three for the Grand Company leaders, one for maybe Nanamo, and two or three for the Scions including us). Merlwyb's office has only one seat - hers - and the Lotus Stand doesn't seem to have any, so the only place available for extended discussion and planning is the Fragrant Chamber. Also makes sense since aside from the episodic Primal uprising, 2.1-2.5.5's overarching story was heavily invested in Ul'dahn politics.

... and as Moose pointed out, Ul'dah is roughly equidistant from Gridania and Limsa, so it makes the most logistical sense.

I guess I can see the arguments about seating/travel. Still, they seem like minor issues if you're talking about matters of national security being tapped into, don't they? I mean, wouldn't you go out of your way a bit to avoid compromised locations if the security of your nation could potentially be at risk? Wouldn't you just nab a random room lying around, post a couple guards outside and grab 3-4 chairs for people to sit in?

I guess that's why I don't really buy the logistics/seating bit -- The meetings aren't really big, they're only 3-6 people, and if these people care about their countries as much as they say they do, what's 2-6 more hours of travel time?

For the victory party, the explanations given here totally make sense, so that's a load off of my mind. Thanks!

The Sultana is probably the least mobile of all the cities' leaders. She had to don a disguise just to pray at a tree 60 yalms away from the city gate! I can't imagine the bureaucracy and huge entourage she'd need to muster to get permission to leave Ul'dah.

Also, the banquet was basically a fundraising event to get the rich people in Ul'dah to buy war bonds (think of it as equivalent to a modern day charity gala). Limsa and Gridania don't have enough rich people to hold such an event.

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Originally Posted by Syfer22

I guess I can see the arguments about seating/travel. Still, they seem like minor issues if you're talking about matters of national security being tapped into, don't they? I mean, wouldn't you go out of your way a bit to avoid compromised locations if the security of your nation could potentially be at risk? Wouldn't you just nab a random room lying around, post a couple guards outside and grab 3-4 chairs for people to sit in?

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For the most part nobody suspected foul play - before 2.5.5 Ul'dah was relatively secure, with the Immortal Flames policing the streets instead of the Brass Blades and the Crystal Braves having a much subdued presence in the city. Ul'dah doesn't have a general lack of security (though the rampant corruption doesn't help), but that 2.5.5's events set it up to be that way; by mobilizing the Flames to help with the Steps of Faith and having the Blades and Braves in their pocket, the Monetarists were able to effectively have free reign in Ul'dah and get away with much more than they should have been able to.

I do wonder if the Sultana is free to travel. Unlike the other leaders, she lacks independence, with the Syndicate keeping an eye on her seemly non stop. And sending Raubahn doesn't have the same cache. Considering the financing for the Eorzian Alliance comes mainly from Ul'dah, the Syndicate might demand the meetings take place in their home city.

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Originally Posted by Grayve

I do wonder if the Sultana is free to travel. Unlike the other leaders, she lacks independence

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I wouldn't be surprised if that's a big part of it, too; she skipped the declaration of the Seventh Astral Era, didn't she?

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

one destination shouldn't be much more inconvenient than any other.

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Chairs are a definitely not a strong point, lol; I'm just that the Command Room isn't accommodating, the Lotus Stand is outdoors, and other venues lack the same security considerations as the leadership halls (which opens avenues to far more than the Syndicate, who usually have access to and utilize the Fragrant Chamber, anyway).

As for airshipping, Eorzea is huge; it's a continent. They shrug that off for game mechanics when it comes to players, but NPCs still have to live within the limitations of their own world, traveling what looks to be analogous to a sizable chunk of Africa to get from Abalathia's Spine to Cape Deadwind. Even if it's a difference of 12 hours versus 24 riding an open-carriage balloon, round trip travel plus meetings is a lot of a nation's leader to factor into a schedule. I wouldn't dismiss it as irrelevant.

Of all the points brought up so far, Nanamo's lack of mobility seems to weigh heaviest on the decision itself, though I still question what the Syndicate could overhear in a room they usually have access to, anyway, on matters that they themselves have coin invested in. It seems to be a bad place for Nanamo to speak freely about Ul'dahn matters, not a bad place for the Alliance to meet in general (unless someone on the Syndicate plans to allow Ul'dah to go under entirely in an Ascian or Galrean machination). In that vein, the only thing I can imagine them overhearing that's a threat would be when Nanamo spoke of Cartenau and Omega, expressing a desire to outmaneuver Teledji.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Even if it's a difference of 12 hours versus 24 riding an open-carriage balloon, round trip travel plus meetings is a lot of a nation's leader to factor into a schedule. I wouldn't dismiss it as irrelevant.

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Oh, it's definitely relevant. But in my experience operational security should almost always be the highest priority. Honestly, I think the Antecedent's Chamber in the Rising Stones is the only place in the game that I would discuss things without bringing in additional security to make sure there weren't spies (at least, of the places we've seen secrets discussed).

To be honest, I think a key issue is that no one expected such a dramatic play by the Monetarists. Its one thing being corrupt. It's another to stage a coup with so much at stake. The Monetarists aren't idiots. They got wealthy because they were smart. This is a high risk play they are doing. It holds the potential to blow up in there faces big time.

Alliance matters aren't something that could be hidden from the Monetarists anyway. They control Ul'dah's pursestrings so cutting them out would be out of the question.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Oh, it's definitely relevant. But in my experience operational security should almost always be the highest priority. Honestly, I think the Antecedent's Chamber in the Rising Stones is the only place in the game that I would discuss things without bringing in additional security to make sure there weren't spies (at least, of the places we've seen secrets discussed).

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Which actually wouldn't necessarily work either, since by the end of the storyline it becomes more than evident that the Crystal Braves (I still think that name is dumb) is in the Monetarists' back pocket too.