I don't want to use parsers

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I only hate them because:

We were doing a T10 farm. Went 6/7. The WAR asked if anyone was parsing, but no one was. The PLD put up the parser, then, even though we won the next two fights, complaints about the DPS started when the WAR was noted to be out-parsing two of the DPS. At that point, people started leaving.

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While I know War can put out some nice DPS, unless they were heavily outgearing the 2 DPS in question I wonder why they were behind him.... However, I will agree that if you are farming consistently with minimal screw-ups that people should just continue to farm. I'm all for constructive feedback to help improve DPS and maybe speed up the farming, but unless soemone is really being dead weight I don't understand the problem (Though some might consider getting out-performed by a war to be dead weight I guess).

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Parsers is also why we get healers and tanks who can't do well. That DPS player wanted to play a different role now. A win's a win. If it's a farm, then it should continue as it was going. When you force your DPS to push phases (even though following normal mechanics saw high success rates), you tend to burn out the player quickly.

Not only that, but then your definition of "farm" is "speed", so mechanics get ignored and people try to squeeze that last bit of damage before they move out of aoe.

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I would suggest that good players tend to prioritize mechanics as necessary since no one puts out good numbers lying dead on the floor (squeezing out that last bit of damage before moving out of an AoE is how it should be done, assuming that the player actually times it properly or just doesn't bother moving because their defensive cooldowns allow them to eat the AoE with little or no consequence).

When I see failure in casual content, it's usually a mechanics failure but is often exacerbated by DPS being unusually slow, thus allowing for more time for things to go wrong.

For end-game content, DPS checks often are key mechanics for certain phases, and always to some degree in the overall fight. T10 is a good example since it's the entry point for FCOB: players sometimes take so long to kill Imdugud that someone eventually spaces out and screws up on mechanics while the floor is in full enrage mode due to the aforementioned extreme lack of DPS. DPS classes pulling 300ish on T10 with 10% Echo really isn't okay unless they are in full learning mode and have no idea what is going on yet. If I were otherwise performing mechanics but continuing to put out very poor DPS, I'd want to know that I could do better and how to start improving.

And yes, it can be difficult to tell who's doing a good job without metrics to refer to. Not only do subpar DPS often fly under the radar (including their own radar), sometimes exceptional DPS is under-appreciated. The enmity list isn't a great indicator since DPSing under Quelling Strikes or having a DRG pop Elusive Jump influences the rankings.

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

I hate parsers, it just gives people ammo to point fingers either for good or bad and no ones using parsers to find out who's doing a good job.

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Thats because if you are doing a bad job, you should know. Most of the community is helpful and is willing to push your numbers with some advice, problem is the bad players get all defensive and do not want to improve, so we all suffer.

Sorry. But if you're terrible and I offer advice to help not only you, but the group as a whole, clear a hurdle and you shrug it off as doing fine; you can find another group to be terrible in.

Parsers are there to help you better yourself, problem is most people shun the thought of help and want to do things their way. Sure, there are people that are jerks about it, but they are everywhere. That's not even an excuse anymore. People just don't want to be called out, private or not.

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

I hate parsers, it just gives people ammo to point fingers either for good or bad and no ones using parsers to find out who's doing a good job.

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In that case, so does the chat box. Better not make a mistake or I'm gonna get you with my chat box!

Meh, just have SE give us individual parsers which also indicate what's the expected DPS needs for a particular fight. Make it so the expected value is 75% or so of what a "pro" player is giving and every fights will become smooth really.

I honnestly have troubles saying when i'm doing great or bad as SMN, current parsers are unreliables when it comes to dot's damage and we know a SMN's agro SHOULDN'T be higher than an other dps's in most cases.

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Originally Posted by Horobi

current parsers are unreliables when it comes to dot's damage and we know a SMN's agro SHOULDN'T be higher than an other dps's in most cases.

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Nah, current parsers are fine and have been fine for awhile. Are there issues? Sure. Programs have issues. Majority of the SMN bugs (That matter) have been ironed out though.

Just have to configure it correctly.

I don't know why people have such an issue with being called out on DPS.
If a tank fails to hold aggro/pop cooldowns for big hits multiple times, people call them out on it.
If a healer consistently lets people die, or runs out of mana overhealing or just doesnt heal. They get called out.
So why is it an issue to say to someone hey Mr DPS class, you're doing less DPS than a wet noodle, please refine your rotation?

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Originally Posted by Jamein

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Good point lol.

Moar parser = Moar data = moar theorycrafting = better players = moar dps.

Moar parser, its always good to have more data, even if the data is just that your friends are dps divas and you shouldn't raid with them =)

Pick your guildies well friends, getting along is more important than progression.

And woe to the player who goes into a pug with paper skin and a chip on his shoulder; man up, smile at the trolls, and power through. Or just, leave. Your sanity is more important than soldiery.

Words of wisdom from Panda's Guide to Enjoying FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Moar parser = Moar data = moar theorycrafting = better players = moar dps.

Moar parser, its always good to have more data, even if the data is just that your friends are dps divas and you shouldn't raid with them =)

Pick your guildies well friends, getting along is more important than progression.

And woe to the player who goes into a pug with paper skin and a chip on his shoulder; man up, smile at the trolls, and power through. Or just, leave. Your sanity is more important than soldiery.

Words of wisdom from Panda's Guide to Enjoying FFXIV.

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Good advice :)

Tiny point: I'd emphasize that good progression is sometimes key in getting along. People who want to make progress but can't tend to become cranky and frustrated if issues aren't addressed. This is where I think that tools like parsers can help in both progression and in community development when players use the information correctly.