I'm confused about Yoshi-P's thoughts on dps-check programs.

The reason for enrage timers is to prevent groups from stumbling over themselves to achieve victory. It's also a means to encourage people to learn their classes and work efficiently, as well as get proper gear rather than just stacking things to give them enough HP to survive everything.
However, to think that a DPS check requires a parser is silly. It's like assuming car racing requires a speedometer. You can still win a race without knowing exactly how fast you were going.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

However, to think that a DPS check requires a parser is silly. It's like assuming car racing requires a speedometer. You can still win a race without knowing exactly how fast you were going.

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In a car race, you see quite clearly if your fellow racers are going faster than you or not. In a game, you do not see if they're dealing more damage than you or not.

As long as you do everything right, that's fine. But if people are doing something wrong, without a parser, they may never even know it, so they can't improve.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

However, to think that a DPS check requires a parser is silly. It's like assuming car racing requires a speedometer. You can still win a race without knowing exactly how fast you were going.

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How do you know how fast a car can go without a way to measure it? Do you know that the car even capable of going faster than the other cars? I love that you used that analogy because the idea of driving a car without a speedometer is so insane you just defeated your own point.

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Originally Posted by Adire

I wonder why dps parsers are so frowned upon here, but in The Secret World, they're pretty common and everyone is always interested in knowing their dps whether it's good or bad, and the devs are okay with their use and sharing of the information with groups?

It couldn't possibly be that this community is THAT immature and has to be babysitted THAT much by SE :(

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They are that immature. Bunch of special snowflakes are afraid of being called out on sucking.

I'd rather something like "parsers" be implemented though an in-game method. If players are not using DPS jobs efficiently, then the game should help them with it.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

I'd rather something like "parsers" be implemented though an in-game method. If players are not using DPS jobs efficiently, then the game should help them with it.

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Would you feel like elaborating on that? How do you suggest the game teach people to increase their DPS? Dummy tutorials telling them in which order to use their skills?

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Originally Posted by Adire

It couldn't possibly be that this community is THAT immature and has to be babysitted THAT much by SE :(

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No, that is exactly the reason. This problem existed in FFXI and has followed us to FFXIV. Even the mere mention that somebody is "playing wrong" invokes anger and riots in the community. WAR/WHM using a spear and casting Banish? How dare you tell me how to play my game, it's my $12 a month!

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Would you feel like elaborating on that? How do you suggest the game teach people to increase their DPS? Dummy tutorials telling them in which order to use their skills?

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Could easily have something like WoW does here:

http://i.imgur.com/Zohwkam.jpg

Each spec in WoW has one of these. It's not going to make you the best player ever, but it gives you a basic idea of how to actually play your character. Compared to the people who, no joke, Cast Fire 3 until out of MP and then TRANSPOSE.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

Could easily have something like WoW does here:

IMAGE HERE

Each spec in WoW has one of these. It's not going to make you the best player ever, but it gives you a basic idea of how to actually play your character. Compared to the people who, no joke, Cast Fire 3 until out of MP and then TRANSPOSE.

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Oh please, we just had someone complaining about not realizing the HW opening from the XX live letter contains spoilers despite the big black screen disclaimer posted before the video. Do you really think the average people will read any of that? Hell, I have doubts that the average ffxiv players reading the image there would be able to put 2 and 2 together and decide which skill goes with which skill.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

How do you know how fast a car can go without a way to measure it? Do you know that the car even capable of going faster than the other cars? I love that you used that analogy because the idea of driving a car without a speedometer is so insane you just defeated your own point.

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Driving without a speedometer in normal circumstances? is problematic, yes.
I am talking in a race. If you are racing, you do not need to know fast you are going numerically to know whether or not you're winning the race, but it does let you know how fast you're going, which people like. It it not necessary to win the race.
The subject of this analogy is the race not the car. The race doesn't cease to be a race if the cars don't have speedometers.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

In a car race, you see quite clearly if your fellow racers are going faster than you or not. In a game, you do not see if they're dealing more damage than you or not.

As long as you do everything right, that's fine. But if people are doing something wrong, without a parser, they may never even know it, so they can't improve.

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You may not know who, specifically, may be dragging their feet, but it is again not necessary to the actual completion of the objective.
Again, let me restate:
Parsers are a tool, but they are absolutely not required in order to complete the objective.
And I wish people would stop acting like they are.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

No, that is exactly the reason. This problem existed in FFXI and has followed us to FFXIV. Even the mere mention that somebody is "playing wrong" invokes anger and riots in the community. WAR/WHM using a spear and casting Banish? How dare you tell me how to play my game, it's my $12 a month!

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You could play that way just no one wants to deal with a sub par subtank/DD who gets bent over backwards by a bunny rabbit as his defense was low. A lot of the SJ's were not viable in the least for a lot of jobs. Most had 2-3 SJ's that were viable and the rest were garbage. I could have run as rdm/war but my magic would take a noticable hit and I would be no use in a group where my enfeebling needed to be X with a X int/mnd modifier.