What exactly is the penalty for wearing non-optimal gear for your rank?

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

The only time I've ever noticed any difference in performance is when crafting tools go below 50% durability. Weapons and armor don't seem to be affected at all still, as far as I can tell. However, I never let the gear damage icon appear, always repair before gear falls under 35% (tools @ 50%).

As far as gear damage goes, there's hardly any difference except for weapons and tools.

Edit: Seems I missed the main point of the thread lol.

On topic, the effects of wearing gear that does not favor your class or your rank is so miniscule that, more often than not, you're better off wearing armor above your rank. Weapons and tools on the other hand show a significant reduction in stats under the same circumstances. The system needs a lot of tweaking.

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That only applies if you dont care about your def or evasion at all, or for access who have low total amount of those kind of stats.

Or to put it simply, your way, way off the mark. :p

Since the decrease is % based, the higher any stat is on an item, the larger the penalty you get.

In other words, when it comes to bonus stats on an item, such as +craftmanship or + str, you will notice little difference.
That being because those stats tend to be single digit, or low value double digit amounts.

When it comes to stuff like def, evasion tho the hit is a lot bigger, especially on items such as chest pieces~

Incidentally this is also the reason why you notice it the most on weapons and tools, because those have very high amount of stats on them.

So, unless its accessories, or you are using cross class equipment in order to save inventory space (or just for the looks :D)
You don't want to use higher rank equipment unless you are 1-2 ranks below it.

If you dont care for evasion or def you can go a little lower then that for armor~


As far as clarity on items goes, to few people nowadays actually bother to see the effect that equipment an item has on your stats~

We got that stats screen for a reason ya know? xD

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

You don't want to use higher rank equipment unless you are 1-2 ranks below it.

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Wrong.

I have heavily tested this issue and to put it as simply as possible, high rank gear will scale downward to your level, giving you the same exact stats of a lower rank piece that is similar. I'm going to just quote what I said in the other thread.

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Originally Posted by Dread

I have personally tested the effects of using gear under the recommended rank, and the notion that you are sub-par by doing so is unlikely at best, and flat out wrong in some cases. So here are some of the cold hard facts I've managed to collect on the matter:

FACT: Using a weapon with a much higher rank comes with the disadvantage of severely increased durability damage rates. However, both attack and accuracy are generally the same, or *better* than a rank appropriate weapon. So as long as you keep the weapon repaired, you aren't losing anything but the gil required for the frequent repairs. Shields count as armor, as far as durability damage rates are concerned.

FACT: Using armor with a much higher optimal rank offers the same or *better* defense and avoidance as rank appropriate gear. As far as I can tell, if there is a durability damage rate increase for armor, it is very, very small in comparison to the weapon, so small that I couldn't even notice a difference while actively looking for it. Small enough to level a job 1-30 without needing to repair even once.

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Originally Posted by Dread

I just now logged in and tested with a Harrier's Jacket. At rank 30 PGL, it gave me a bonus of 4 DEX and 4 VIT. A lower rank armor, R35 Scouting Jacket, has a maximum bonus of 4 DEX 5 VIT. Chances are, if I equipped that, I'd still only get 4 DEX and 4 VIT until I leveled more.

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So as you can see, even if you are using armor that is far above you in optimal rank, it's stats will scale downward to match the rank appropriate equivalent. If you are rank 35 and you equip a Harrier's Jacket, you will get the same exact stats, armor, and evasion as if you were wearing a Scouting Jacket. The Harrier's Jacket will become better by a few points of armor and evasion the second you hit rank 36, and will continue to get better as you level up.

THERE IS NO FACTUAL EVIDENCE THAT USING EQUIPMENT WITH A MUCH HIGHER OPTIMAL RANK GIVES YOU LESS ARMOR, AVOIDANCE, ATTACK, ACCURACY OR STATS THAN AN EQUIVALENT PIECE OF OPTIMAL RANK.

The above needs to be emphasized. Literally, the ONLY downside of using gear above your rank is increased repair rates, and that's only really noticeable for the weapon.

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Originally Posted by Dread

Wrong.

I have heavily tested this issue and to put it as simply as possible, high rank gear will scale downward to your level, giving you the same exact stats of a lower rank piece that is similar. I'm going to just quote what I said in the other thread.





So as you can see, even if you are using armor that is far above you in optimal rank, it's stats will scale downward to match the rank appropriate equivalent. If you are rank 35 and you equip a Harrier's Jacket, you will get the same exact stats, armor, and evasion as if you were wearing a Scouting Jacket. The Harrier's Jacket will become better by a few points of armor and evasion the second you hit rank 36, and will continue to get better as you level up.

THERE IS NO FACTUAL EVIDENCE THAT USING EQUIPMENT WITH A MUCH HIGHER OPTIMAL RANK GIVES YOU LESS ARMOR, AVOIDANCE, ATTACK, ACCURACY OR STATS THAN AN EQUIVALENT PIECE OF OPTIMAL RANK.

The above needs to be emphasized. Literally, the ONLY downside of using gear above your rank is increased repair rates, and that's only really noticeable for the weapon.

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This x10000

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Originally Posted by Dread

Wrong.

I have heavily tested this issue and to put it as simply as possible, high rank gear will scale downward to your level, giving you the same exact stats of a lower rank piece that is similar. I'm going to just quote what I said in the other thread.





So as you can see, even if you are using armor that is far above you in optimal rank, it's stats will scale downward to match the rank appropriate equivalent. If you are rank 35 and you equip a Harrier's Jacket, you will get the same exact stats, armor, and evasion as if you were wearing a Scouting Jacket. The Harrier's Jacket will become better by a few points of armor and evasion the second you hit rank 36, and will continue to get better as you level up.

THERE IS NO FACTUAL EVIDENCE THAT USING EQUIPMENT WITH A MUCH HIGHER OPTIMAL RANK GIVES YOU LESS ARMOR, AVOIDANCE, ATTACK, ACCURACY OR STATS THAN AN EQUIVALENT PIECE OF OPTIMAL RANK.

The above needs to be emphasized. Literally, the ONLY downside of using gear above your rank is increased repair rates, and that's only really noticeable for the weapon.

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Ill also emphase my points:

I have tested as well and using an item of MUCH higher rank then yourself almost always results in a high, high decrease in in stats. (base stats on the item, not bonus)
Now had you not said ''much'' i would have agreed with you, but when you did say it you nullified your entire argument.

Also note that the ''almost'' refers to unique items that tend to have considerably more stats, or HQ, which well, the same.

Now then, since you have obviously hard tested these and gotten different results from the many others that also tested it, how about posting those tests of yours? :p

Unless the only tests you did involved 2 specific items where the lower rank had crap stats for its rank and the higher one good ones?

But hey im sure you can explain using a tool of a lower rank and then switching to a higher rank tool and notice a decrease in stats.

Oops.

Whatever do the testers these days thing testing is all about?

Don't let your ego get hurt on the internet, folks. Personally, I'd have to agree that far too few facts are known about the system. Evidence can suggest things, but that doesn't make it undiluted fact. Perhaps if we had a test with an R1 class in an R50 piece of gear comparing the stats to Weathered gear? But maybe that's been done.

*shrug* check your stats with both an item that is rank appropriate (at or below your rank) and the item that's above your rank you're thinking of wearing. Unless the item you are replacing is seriously below your current rank, you're usually better with the item below your rank than the one above your rank. so if you're rank 15 and you're replacing a rank 9 item and the only thing you can get ahold of is a rank 18 item, your stats will go up if you put on the rank 18 item. However if you're replacing a rank 12 item it's probably better to keep that one for a level or two then switch.

The gear interface will show the difference so try it out. If you've got the inventory space it's always better to switch exactly when you get better stats. Oh, and by "try it out" I mean actually equip the stuff and see what your attack/defense stats changed to. The red/green difference on the item stats themselves don't actually mean much since they don't take optimal into consideration (I wish they did - heck if they did people wouldn't equip non-optimal gear as much since they'd see that switching would bring a sea of decreased stats).

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Ill also emphase my points:

I have tested as well and using an item of MUCH higher rank then yourself almost always results in a high, high decrease in in stats. (base stats on the item, not bonus)
Now had you not said ''much'' i would have agreed with you, but when you did say it you nullified your entire argument.

Also note that the ''almost'' refers to unique items that tend to have considerably more stats, or HQ, which well, the same.

Now then, since you have obviously hard tested these and gotten different results from the many others that also tested it, how about posting those tests of yours? :p

Unless the only tests you did involved 2 specific items where the lower rank had crap stats for its rank and the higher one good ones?

But hey im sure you can explain using a tool of a lower rank and then switching to a higher rank tool and notice a decrease in stats.

Oops.

Whatever do the testers these days thing testing is all about?

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From what I understand, you are equipping an item of higher rank, and noticing that it's giving you less stats than what's listed on the item itself, correct? Of course that happens, I never said it didn't.

What you need to understand is, despite the "high decrease in stats" from the listed stats on the item to the actual stats given to you on the character sheet, that the high rank item is still comparable or better than an optimal rank item giving 100% of it's listed item stats to your character sheet.

And of course I've tested on more than just two items, the ones I mentioned were just an example I used to show how the game scales gear.

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Originally Posted by Letrange

*shrug* check your stats with both an item that is rank appropriate (at or below your rank) and the item that's above your rank you're thinking of wearing. Unless the item you are replacing is seriously below your current rank, you're usually better with the item below your rank than the one above your rank. so if you're rank 15 and you're replacing a rank 9 item and the only thing you can get ahold of is a rank 18 item, your stats will go up if you put on the rank 18 item. However if you're replacing a rank 12 item it's probably better to keep that one for a level or two then switch.

The gear interface will show the difference so try it out. If you've got the inventory space it's always better to switch exactly when you get better stats. Oh, and by "try it out" I mean actually equip the stuff and see what your attack/defense stats changed to. The red/green difference on the item stats themselves don't actually mean much since they don't take optimal into consideration (I wish they did - heck if they did people wouldn't equip non-optimal gear as much since they'd see that switching would bring a sea of decreased stats).

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I did exactly this, and my findings were as I said in my original post. If you use gear of the same type, such as a Scouting Jacket and Harrier's Jacket, you will get the same stats from either on the character sheet.

I have even personally tested the R1 Weathered Bone Hora vs the R50 Jade Hora and as a R1 PUG, and I can say with certainty that the Jade Hora was in no way inferior despite it's massive reduction in stats from those listed to what actually is given on the character sheet.

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Originally Posted by Rubicon

Thanks to everyone who has replied. What is clear is that the Optimal Rank system is not presented to the player very clearly. :/

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100% true, as much as I love the optimal system that is the biggest glaring flaw. The penalties should show much more clearly in the gear menu when equipping things.

In addition to that, it could use a harsher penalty out of optimal rank to more strongly suggest players use proper rank gear, especially at 10+ ranks out. Also the system could benefit from sets with bonuses as well as bonuses for wearing things at or above the optimal rank, as others have suggested in other threads.

(Compared to an R24 Cotton Cowl):
Equipping an R44 Velveteen Cowl +1 on my 24THM actually increases MND and PIE by 1 each, while reducing defense and magic defense by 11 and 10, respectively.

To be specific:
w/ Cotton Cowl:
Mind: 98
Piety: 97
Defense: 103
M. Defense: 101

w/ Velv. Cowl +1:
Mind: 99
Piety: 98
Defense: 92
M. Defense: 91

It should be noted that the Velveteen Cowl normally offers 6MND and 4PIE, while the Cotton Cowl gives 3MND and 2PIE. While equipping a non-optimal piece seems to lack equivalent defense, the bonus stats seem to slightly outweigh the detriments. Yes, this is one example, but it indicates that the issue is not merely black and white. I doubt while leveling that 10-11 points in defense will be your undoing, and at 50 it wouldn't even matter. So why do we care what other people are equipping?

edit: the fun part is, checking this out made me realize I'm better off wearing either of the cowls as opposed to a Loyalist's Bliaud, haha. Ok, so my foot is partially in my mouth, but the Bliaud does have significantly lower defense to begin with (it's bonus stats are still pretty good though <_<).

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Originally Posted by Sav

(Compared to an R24 Cotton Cowl):
Equipping an R44 Velveteen Cowl +1 on my 24THM actually increases MND and PIE by 1 each, while reducing defense and magic defense by 11 and 10, respectively.

To be specific:
w/ Cotton Cowl:
Mind: 98
Piety: 97
Defense: 103
M. Defense: 101

w/ Velv. Cowl +1:
Mind: 99
Piety: 98
Defense: 92
M. Defense: 91

It should be noted that the Velveteen Cowl normally offers 6MND and 4PIE, while the Cotton Cowl gives 3MND and 2PIE. While equipping a non-optimal piece seems to lack equivalent defense, the bonus stats seem to slightly outweigh the detriments. Yes, this is one example, but it indicates that the issue is not merely black and white. I doubt while leveling that 10-11 points in defense will be your undoing, and at 50 it wouldn't even matter. So why do we care what other people are equipping?

edit: the fun part is, checking this out made me realize I'm better off wearing either of the cowls as opposed to a Loyalist's Bliaud, haha. Ok, so my foot is partially in my mouth, but the Bliaud does have significantly lower defense to begin with (it's bonus stats are still pretty good though <_<).

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Thanks for taking the time to actually test something yourself. However, just thought I'd point out that you can use headgear with the Bliaud, and can't with cowls.