Refurbishing 1.0 Stats for use in current version.

I think a few different kinds of sub stats would be nice, to allow more variation between items of the same level. Including some stats that don't just make you deal more damage....

Ideas that come to mind; 'Stamina' - increases your base TP, and/or increases the natural TP recovery rate.

Constitution - reduces physical damage taken, increases your natural HP recovery rate, and reduces the duration of status ailments

Wisdom - reduces magical damage taken, and increases MP natural recovery rate (Or reduces the MP cost of spells instead, as that would probably work better with how BLM's work)

A stat that slightly extends the duration of Cooldowns and/or reduces their recast timers. (Can't think of an appropriate name though!)

I would actually like to see something like this in the game. Currently there is no real reason to get your relic given that players can get another fairly comparable weapon via extremes or with tomestones.

It should also be noted, that something like this could actually make the relic upgrade stages actually mean something. At the moment, the amount of work involved in upgrading your relic from one stage to the next is disproportional to the reward that one gets.

Similarly, I would like to see set bonuses on gear.

RElics were not the only gear with stats like that. AF gear in 1.0 had great job bonus stats(it was of course harder to get than it is now). IE: BRDs AF gave boosts to songs for more potency or length of time(when songs were not linked to MP but just had a set time length). Speaking of which, I miss the BRDs of old because despite not being wanted anywhere endgame, our utility was more thought out.

This reminds me of EQ2's itemization.
It got kind of crazy, especially where the epic weapons were concerned. They actually had to create a quest that stripped the effect from the epic weapons and made it a buff you cast since some of them (like the Dirge (AKA melee-focused bard) one) were so powerful and they couldn't be arsed to create a new epic quest line to upgrade the weapon (since they'd have to do so every content update. SOE doesn't have SE's resources)
Not that it's a BAD thing, mind you...having gear that has effects on abilities rather than just pretty things with stats on them would be a nice touch, if done right.
But i'm gonna have to go with my usual mantra: If they removed it, they probably won't be putting it back any time soon. Though the AF2 might have something like this.
Having more choices for gear is always a good thing...though again, as a former EQ player i'm not really looking forward to something like a "shrunken goblin skull earring" or "flowing black silk sash" situation

They definitely need to spice up gear. This game probably has the most boring gear out of any games I've played and it's hard to care about getting something.
They don't need to put huge increases on anything as gear is designed in such an extreme vertical fashion that its shelf life is and will remain very low but seeing random bonuses, hidden effects and the likes would at least make the process of gearing up fun instead of just something you do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renik

On a game like this were gear has a short lifespan, this kind of % bonuses doesn't really affect the overall balance, in most cases upgrading a piece level will give you a greater bonus than a 0.5% on the overall damage, the difference is not that big as long as they can keep it balanced, lets say the relic weapon has +5% jump and 15 crit, while soldiery has 30 crit instead of jump bonus, the damage output will be more or less the same, so the piece won't be mandatory, i will just feel more like dragoon weapon.

---

But it is not as simple to say +5% Jump damage is equal to +15 Crit. At certain cases it is, but in other cases it is worth more and still others less. There is a concept called diminishing returns where the more of something of you already have the less benefit you get from increasing the total by the same amount further and you need to add more to get the same effect. +15 crit at 300 crit is a greater increase in average dps than +15 crit at 600 crit. On the other hand, +5% increased Potency on an ability is the same percentage gain at 300 crit as it is a 600 crit.

Quote:

---

Now lets say 4 patch later they introduce another piece with a 5% bonus on jump, would you use these 2 together when the new weapon or armor is clearly superior on main stats and secondary ones?

---

Depends on a lot of factors. Has the point where the benefits from the higher level weapon or armor is less than the lower level piece due to diminishing returns (For example many Bards Consider the i120 Demon Tabard of Aiming to be better in slot than the i130 Dreadwyrm tabard of Aiming or the Augement Ironworks Corselet of Aiming) Do the bonuses stack additively (+5% + +5% = +10%) or do they stack multiplicatively (+5% + +5% = +10.25%).

Quote:

---

as you can see, this fear for specific stats has no place in the current system, to the point Yoshi already said in the last e3 that hey were already looking into it.

---

The phrase "We are looking into it" in this case doesn't mean "they are coming" but "we know there are problems with implementing such a thing and are trying to figure out if it is viable." One of the example of why they are being careful with this was actually about a shield that increased Shield Bash/Shield Swipe damage. They know it could easily become best in slot over higher level pieces.

Think the most viable way is they introduce something like this is with a new version of materia after the expansion comes out then 51+ and end game gear would have slots to be able to attach and remove materia with DOH.

It's tricky to implement because you run the risk of situations like in FF11 where any staff released for years in FF11 was garbage because the level 51 elemental staffs were a % increase which completely trumped any raw stat increase.

1.0's relic/AF equipment had those stats because they were meant to be the best gear in the game for a game that had a definite ending so they could set the "ultimate equipment" bar without worrying about the repercussions. Once again FF11 had a similar issue because Relic weapons were released early on and set a hard limit to how strong "other" weapons could be for years.

I'm all for gear lasting longer but when you release new content and there is only like 1 piece of gear that anybody wants you have a problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

snip

---

The difference is, the new pieces are not increasing stats that way, in case of weapons, the weapon damage value is the most important, if you use a weaker version, no matter what the secondary stats are, you're gimping yourself, so keeping an old weapon for a secondary stat is not worth it.

In case of armors, it's more complex, but the case is the same, you can choose between a i110, 120 or 130 based on the secondary stat, if you care to, but once the game hits i150-160, keeping a 110 or 120 piece is unthinkable, because you're affecting your main stat, vitality, defense and magic defense. So the game already have good measures to combat imbalance caused by specific stats, and to keep old pieces where they deserve.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

The phrase "We are looking into it" in this case doesn't mean "they are coming" but "we know there are problems with implementing such a thing and are trying to figure out if it is viable." One of the example of why they are being careful with this was actually about a shield that increased Shield Bash/Shield Swipe damage. They know it could easily become best in slot over higher level pieces.

---

And that's exactly what i wanted to say, some people want it, and they are looking into a way ti implement it without hurting the game, the fact is, everything can be balanced, it's not about if we should or should not have it, it's about if we want it or not, once the feedback is gathered, their job is look into its balance for its addition.

Let me say that i don't think they removed these stats to keep the game balanced the way some people thinks, they had a year and half to rebuild the game, so i can't even imagine how much they had for testing and balance purposes, they just released the game with basic stats because that's what they could achieve in such a short time.

People SHOULD be rewarded for accomplishing a long-term task. Right now, the reward for the relic grind is the second-best weapon of its class - but, like all weapons, is very bare-bones and bland, with nothing to make it distinct from other weapons, and the difference in effectiveness over the third, fourth, fifth, and sixth best weapons are very modest. I'd welcome "unique stats" of this kind.

However, there is a risk. FFXI had unique and POWERFUL stats on its Relic weapons that made them wildly unbalanced compared to other weapons in the game. This was fine, but only because the grind to obtain one was so ridiculous that it took a devoted linkshell an entire year to outfit just ONE of their members with one. Relic-bearers were rare and notable, but owning a relic weapon was not an expectation for any game activity.

As time passed, though, changes came to the game that made obtaining a Relic weapon much easier. Max level increased, and the zone where the grind took place became more accessible. The grind to obtain a Relic still put FFXIV's relic grind to shame, but it became something achievable by small groups or even individuals, rather than requiring an entire linkshell. Players began demanding that only relic-equipped DPS join their groups. Paladins in particular began to be seen as gimp if they didn't have an Aegis, the relic Shield, with its ridiculous block rate and power, and its huge reduction in magic damage taken.

Relics in this game are a grind, and while I'd like to see folks rewarded for their grind, the grind in this case is far too easy. If there is a special reward for sticking it out (and there should be), the reward can't be so great that players are EXPECTED to grind out a relic. Any bonuses from unique stats would need to be quite modest, rather than the game-breakers the FFXI relics had.

Players who play casually need to budget their time in order to participate in the FUN things the game has to offer. If other players won't party with them until they've used months of their precious gaming time to complete a decidedly UNfun Relic grind, that's a definite step in the wrong direction for the game as a whole...