Discussion: Redefinition and Redistribution of Actions, Abilities, and Weapon Skills

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

What are some changes you would like to see to the current game classes in regards to their skills?

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Rearrange almost all of the mage skills to be either a healer or dps.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

Rearrange almost all of the mage skills to be either a healer or dps.

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I'm actually quite confused as to how they are going to full off WHM and BLM. THM just doesn't fit..unless they have something else planned for THM, job-wise. But that would mean 2 jobs for CON, and we all know everyone would freak if that happened even if it is obvious that CON is technically two classes.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

The whole 'make classes fulfill specific roles' argument has been made countless times. That's essentially what they are introducing Jobs for.

When you play on any class they all have the potential to solo effectively, but when it comes to party play and filling certain roles - while come classes are naturally more adept at them than others, it becomes necessary to rank multiple classes for sub skills.

When Jobs hit however, this will no longer be necessary. The Job will fill that purpose by itself.

A popular example would be the tank. Currently players can tank on GLA, PGL, or MRD. However to tank effectively one requires to have all 3 of them ranked sufficiently, as well as other classes.
However, when GLA gains access to the PLD Job, and equips it, they will have access to PLD only skills that will make tanking/self-healing natively possible w.o the need to rank other classes - especially since most cross-class abilities will not be equip-able.

A lot of initial ideas for classes in this game were scrapped - and classes clearly ended up being way too solo-oriented by themselves. However, I believe the dev team found a solid way to promote both party play and solo play with the Job system.

Soloing on a WHM may be incredibly difficult, but on a CON not so much. I'm sure a PLD wouldn't be able to deal much damage over time but a GLA is much more capable.

Certain things you want when solo, and certain things when in a party. The Classes and Jobs being separate yet in cooperation I feel will satisfy both sides of the spectrum.

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I was aware of the job system but the job system won't be around until 1.20 which is the same time they will be finalizing skill changes so I opted to exclude it from my analysis of the current classes. I've also learned to wait until the patch is actually released/detailed to make much of an assumption on how its going to work but I hope it is the way it seems.

As much as I don't like to bash the soloers because I've done the majority of my leveling solo/in small groups; as long as the dev team starts pumping out plenty of group orriented content (preferably the kind that forces various players together somehow, ie: behest) I don't think there will be much of an issue with each class having a more defined role. As long as they do the revisions carefully, they can maintain the solo-friendly aspect of each class while bringing back the initial flavor of each class. Then with jobs they can build on top of that by letting classes further specialize.

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Originally Posted by Kailok

I'm actually quite confused as to how they are going to full off WHM and BLM. THM just doesn't fit..unless they have something else planned for THM, job-wise. But that would mean 2 jobs for CON, and we all know everyone would freak if that happened even if it is obvious that CON is technically two classes.

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I honestly just figured (and am hoping) that they just aren't releasing both BLM and WHM at the start, since they just said what jobs whose names they had finalized, not specifically which ones were coming out first. Giving CON both BLM and WHM would be able to keep the lore around both of the jobs just the way it is and be a lot nicer to those that leveled CON as a nuker or as a healer, or hell even people like me that like doing both functions at once.

Also consider that if either THM or CON become designated healers it defeats the purpose of having WHM come out in the first place and makes it extremely difficult for that class to solo.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

I honestly just figured (and am hoping) that they just aren't releasing both BLM and WHM at the start, since they just said what jobs whose names they had finalized, not specifically which ones were coming out first. Giving CON both BLM and WHM would be able to keep the lore around both of the jobs just the way it is and be a lot nicer to those that leveled CON as a nuker or as a healer, or hell even people like me that like doing both functions at once.

Also consider that if either THM or CON become designated healers it defeats the purpose of having WHM come out in the first place and makes it extremely difficult for that class to solo.

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Nope they said the ones they revealed are the first batch of jobs being released - 1 job per class. So CON and THM are indeed going to get WHM and BLM. It isn't entirely clear which should get which at this point - which is why I expect the changes they mentioned being especially drastic for the mages.

A lot of debate as gone into the Con/Thm theory of who gets Whm/Blm and even Smn has been brought up. The issue with giving one job over the other is this; currently Con is an "elemental" job that for some reason has Whm spells. But, those elemental attributes use to belong to Smn and Blm. Then you have Thm. While it has a ton of other Whm spells, it comes off as this dark DPS type class. So how the hell do you figure out who gets Whm or Blm? LOL

Btw, if that came of jerkish I wasn't meaning to and the question there at the end is directed to no one it's just a general WTH type response. :p

Geesus there's 2 THM guilds, but the dark one is the one that you go to for quests. There is a light/life one as well. THM's theme is more akin to Dark Knight's, sacrificing yourself to benefit others, or in the case of the drain spells, sacrificing others to benefit you =P

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Originally Posted by Geesus

A lot of debate as gone into the Con/Thm theory of who gets Whm/Blm and even Smn has been brought up. The issue with giving one job over the other is this; currently Con is an "elemental" job that for some reason has Whm spells. But, those elemental attributes use to belong to Smn and Blm. Then you have Thm. While it has a ton of other Whm spells, it comes off as this dark DPS type class. So how the hell do you figure out who gets Whm or Blm? LOL

Btw, if that came of jerkish I wasn't meaning to and the question there at the end is directed to no one it's just a general WTH type response. :p

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Exactly.

This is why I think the answer to that question will only become clear after they release their proposed changes to the CON and THM classes alongside 1.19.

So on a more progressive note;

What sort of skill swaps and changes to the two mage classes do you guys expect? How do you think THM and CON skillsets will look, or even should look, to accommodate the BLM and WHM jobs?

No hype on this topic? :/

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

No hype on this topic? :/

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People are still really focused on talking endlessly about crafting/hq/materia atm, you know how knee jerky some posters are. I think people who are able to see past the hot button issue of the week, wonder where the pieces are going to fall after the game of musical chairs with the skill pools.

Us lore buffs are also wondering how any massive deviations from canon are going to be handled. Aside from that there is not really a worth while discussion to be had at the moment that dose not revolve around hyperbole and speculation and thus degenerate into a lot of circle talking and metaphorical table flipping.