Finally got through T5. Time to learn T6?

Start a learning party in PF. See if anyone in your FC will help you with it. There's still statics out there progressing in SCoB, so you could also try finding one of those. It's fine not to watch guides as long as you're willing to listen and learn from your mistakes. Good luck in T6.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Start a learning party in PF. See if anyone in your FC will help you with it. There's still statics out there progressing in SCoB, so you could also try finding one of those. It's fine not to watch guides as long as you're willing to listen and learn from your mistakes. Good luck in T6.

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To the OP:

I second this. Finding a good group to come together is great. Again casual players are just now broaching towards Turn 9 and are likely looking for people willing to push through the long haul on it. My company is even behind that, resigning themselves to learning the mechanics of each Turn going up before advancing, and weaving in events that catch other members of the FC up to objectives like First Coil and Primals. (Helping people with bad internet connections through Titan Ex and whatnot.) I'm fairly certain that if you keep looking you will find a group willing to help you out. Just be patient, yet persistent.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

However, as far as the rule of averages goes. Casual players make the bulk of this game's population. You are far more likely to encounter one through the duty finder than any other kind of player. Expecting otherwise is inviting disaster. Again these things are patently obvious by continual first hand experience.

Again, we can argue these things to the next Calamity. You're going to encounter this. Regardless of our opinions. You don't go into DF with high, or even reasonable expectations. You do so at the peril of your constant disappointment. Go in there expecting to have to help people, and you'll have a far more enjoyable experience all around.

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See, I agree that casual players make the bulk of this game but how can you make the assumption that they're all the same and I can just expect the worst of them? They're varied players, some can be excellent players who just dont have time to raid the newest content, some can be players with low skills but have lots of time. I can't really expect them all to have the same personality either. I don't believe in "they're all casuals so i can just expect the worst of them" mindset.

Speaking of averages, me and my fc went to t6 to help someone gear up his pld last week. Six of us went there at least 12 times in a row to clear it and we only got 1 new player bonus and only we only wiped once (it wasnt the run with the new player). I'd say 24 or so players we met were generally decent at least at handling mechanics. Especially the pug slots are 1 dps and 1 healer and we eventually played around with both our tanks equipping str accessories and tanking without defiance or tanking in sword oath and most of the df healers handled it well. I've solo dfed turn 6 and 7 a few times myself and while there were some rough rides, it was generally not that painful, due to the nerfs.

Also, regarding the kicking abuse thing, I've seen first hand on how lenient SE is when it comes to suspending players that are harassing/kicking other players (not just referring to the praetor instance I mentioned) so I was indeed surprised to see people claim that such a thing is a deterrent from kicking other players. Hell, I've seen someone try to ruin a bone dragon fight in ct and succeeded at it until he got kicked and right immediately after his partner went to bug out the next fight, locking out 24 people from the fight permanently and everyone had to completely abandon the instance because of it. I reported him (and I'm sure people in the instance from another world did the same) and I never saw him get banned and he even bragged about having done it and not getting banned. So forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical about the gm being an actual deterrent from people using the kick system for play style disagreement (also seen another thread in this forum complaining about gm not doing anything about it), but I'll take your word for it.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Rule of averages did. It does not matter how many parties you mistreat, eventually you kicking someone for poor player skill will wind up with one too many reports on your record and action will be taken.

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Some people are there for the clear and the people with no idea what's going on make that virtually impossible in the time given. Kicking someone for having poor skills or no knowledge of the fight would most likely fall under a difference in playstyles, which the GM's have previously said is not a reason for taking action against accounts.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I've had players report getting 3 day bans after making habit of using the vote-kick system. It's not harassment that is required for action to be taken, it's abuse of the system. So one who makes a habit of enforcing the mentality tends to receive the backlash.

If you wish to put your account to the test for this, be my guest. SE has already declared multiple times that they take abuse of the Vote-kick system seriously, and I have seen the effects of it. Take it for what you will.

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That's just it, though. There has to be abuse or harassment. Kicking a player that's holding the group back isn't abuse, especially if a basic explanation of mechs has been given and they aren't listening or just aren't getting it.

@OP - I honestly would suggest making a learning party. Don't look for them, because you won't find many. Take the initiative to make your own. There will be experienced players willing to help you because of the bonus soldiery, and you may pick up a few players like yourself that want to learn and haven't been able to find parties for it. I would honestly recommend watching a video. I don't like watching them myself; I learn better from doing. Videos can be pretty valuable for giving you the basic outline of the fight mechanics, but the nuances come with experience. As you repeat the fight, you will learn little tricks to your role that you won't learn from a general guide.

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Originally Posted by Hazama999

Good question. You play your way and I respect that, but why should I hold random people in a random matchmaking system to my own standards?

I'm not actually expecting players to explain the fight to me. As far as effort is concerned, I'd like to think that I'm perceptive enough to put 2 and 2 together when it comes to learning raid mechanics. To this end, I've made good use of my PS4's recording feature x)

That's pretty much how I learned T5 back when there were still a few learning parties left for it. Is this not effort?

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The problem with this line of thinking is that for these kinds of fights, if you don't know what you're doing, you will get the group wiped. It can be considered selfish and disrespectful to many people if you're wasting the time of 7 other players because you refused to watch a guide of the fight (just to learn the mechanics you need to watch out for) that is most likely shorter than your queue time to get in as a DPS.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

exept DF are there for that, since PF party are barely used for this. if you do a DF of a content and hope that everyone know the whole fight.... you are quite naive. when you press the ready button for DF a content, you accept that you can get people that don't know the fight or do it for the first time... i find it extremely rude the people that expect everyone to be at the same point than them in DF... if you don't want to meet people that don't know the fight or do it for the first time...create a group in PF with the same goal.

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This is for sure the mindset for NA (and maybe EU?) DF, but the JP datacenter DFs are treated as "clear" parties where participants are expected to have knowledge of the fight ahead of time (to not inconvenient the rest of the party) even if they've never actually done it before.

Someone linked a video to a solo queue DF T9 clear a few days ago done in a JP DF group.

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Originally Posted by Vaultic_Fang

The Duty Finder is meant for both new and experienced players.
If you are offended by helping new players learn content in a duty finder, I would recommend you avoid it in the future and stick to making pre-made or simply leave the group.

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The Duty Finder is meant for both new and experienced players.
If you are offended by not being helped as a new player to learn content in a duty finder, I would recommend you avoid it in the future and stick to making pre-made or simply leave the group.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

That's just it, though. There has to be abuse or harassment. Kicking a player that's holding the group back isn't abuse, especially if a basic explanation of mechs has been given and they aren't listening or just aren't getting it.

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That's not for you or I to determine. That's for the GM to determine, and again, abuse of the system, which is can simply be ascertained by having enough reports against the individual for votkick abuse, is enough grounds for the GM or SGM to make the call.

It does not need to be simple abuse of a single individual. At all. While GMs have a rubric to follow, cases like that fall to their discretion (usually, the SGM or team leader would make the call). A person who's going to votekick abuse like that is going to get attention paid to them, and not of the kind they want.

And I don't play the skepticism game. I deal with facts and experience. Turn around on GM calls can be anywhere between that night to months later depending on the amount of investigation needed. When you are building a case of mechanic abuse behavior, especially as one on an area as contestable as votekick, it can take a while.


If you guys want to take these risks to enforce an imaginary standard that the majority of the game neither knows of or agrees with, do so at your own peril.

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Speaking of averages, me and my fc went to t6 to help someone gear up his pld last week

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Completely disqualified your argument. You came into the DF with the purpose of aiding someone, worked with those who were new to the mechanics, expected wipes, got them, and clears. You were willing, and able to, experiment with the players, regardless of their level of mechanics. Just so happened that they were competent enough to do the job.

On the matter of luck with Duty Finder, I have a FC member that rolls a 1 on a d20 so many times of late that it's become an expectation. That does not mean there are not another 19 sides it can land on just as easily. The idea is to go into DF expecting you're going to have to put some work into pulling the party together. It's the pretense of patience that matters.

Examples are being thrown around on how someone who has cleared T5 should have their mechanics down by T6 - but it doesn't account for things like Class changes. Someone who used to main DPS and got through Twintania may not be as good at tanking going into the DF, but did it because he was exasperated with DPS queues. They're likely going to need help on matters that some people are going to think they should have down by now. It does not mean they are a bad person or should be instantly kicked because of it. Especially when it comes the Duty Finder.

I swear, it shouldn't be so exasperating to tell people to be patient when dealing with randoms.

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Originally Posted by Deculture

This is for sure the mindset for NA (and maybe EU?) DF, but the JP datacenter DFs are treated as "clear" parties where participants are expected to have knowledge of the fight ahead of time (to not inconvenient the rest of the party) even if they've never actually done it before.

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This way of doing things always made far more sense to me. The way I see it, treating DF as a place for learning fights just turns into a vicious circle: people who are looking to clear content will simply stop using the DF and go to PF instead, meaning that DF ends up consisting mostly of inexperienced players with very few experienced players to help out, which just makes it even harder for those players to get clears.

Personally, I don't touch DF anymore for anything other than roulettes. While I'm happy to help new players learn fights, I want it to be something I entered the party knowing I was going to be doing, not something that gets sprung on me as a surprise when I'm trying to clear something for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by Deculture

This is for sure the mindset for NA (and maybe EU?) DF, but the JP datacenter DFs are treated as "clear" parties where participants are expected to have knowledge of the fight ahead of time (to not inconvenient the rest of the party) even if they've never actually done it before.

Someone linked a video to a solo queue DF T9 clear a few days ago done in a JP DF group.

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don't get me wrong, i feel that the DF and PF are badly used in US and EU, i feel the JP server use it how it's intended to be used. sadly i'm on ragnarok.... then i'm forced to adapted myself to the standart used there. PF are used for clear and make group optimized while the DF are used for the learning, believe me i think it's a nonsense, how you want people to learn anything with a group changing everytime?
anyway, all i say it's in EU and US DF are PUG then don't expect people to be skilled or have knowledge of the fight, like i have said it's naive. and kick someone because he is like this... is being rude, since if you want to not meet people like this, create a PF is safer.