Need some WHM Speedrunning tips please

practice :)

But also little tips are to run right next to tank but make sure you dont pull.
Once tank has stopped swift a holy which pause the mobs for a bit.

Also learn to recognize certain tank CDs e.g foresight and rampart both do the same thing but you are going to be healing more on one the other.
Get E4AE up as soon as you can
Do not worry about healing the DPS they really shouldnt be pulling, if they do run asap between tank and them and cure 3 yourself as this will mean healing on tank doesnt stop and they should be sorted out.

I try not to regen right off (unless I was not expecting that high of a damage) because of the delay between the next time I cast cure/II. I've had too many tanks drop from doing that x_x I only plop regen on right off if the mob is a more normal size (and then I can help DPS, too).

*deep breath and prepares to shield face*

I think I have a more defensive approach compared to some of the other tips, as I have a preference to wait till the tank is more stabilized before throwing a Holy into the mix

What I do for pugged parties is this (Take this as a grain of salt, since I seem to have a slightly different approach from everyone else):

-Protect
-Swiftcast SSII (because ain't nobody got time for standing. -_-)

Once I've realized that they're speed running (by their grabbing everything and then continue running):
-I keep the tank focused/selected (but this is generally majority of the run)
-When I identify that they're not continuing their pull (no more nearby monsters or theres a road block), I use Presence of Mind (my preference of the two buffs.... *shields face, since the rest of the thread seems to use Divine first* EXPLANATION: I've just found I can't seem to cast fast enough - I'd get one cure II in and they'd die in mid cast of the second. So I compensated this way, rather than Divine. You may not have the same issue or thought process as I so try either as a starter to see what works for you)
-Spam Cure II + SoS for enmity/MP
-Regen when they're -completely- topped off by a cure and I -think- they can withstand a few hits for the GCD (so in other words, not right away)
-Since I play on PC, I keep my cursor positioned over Benediction, just in case of an 'ohshit' emergencies while key spamming cures, and not hitting the wrong key in a panic. It's just a click away.

-If they're still not able to keep up HP even after presence goes down and theres still lots of monsters (low DPS, no AoE... tank shouldn't be pulling big without, but whatever), I pop Divine seal as a backup. It's really rare that I've had to use BOTH in one pull, and I really don't recommend it - because they're probably not going to wait for one or the other buff to come off CD for the next big pull (from my experience).
But at that point, hopefully you need to let them know to hold up a minute, at least for Presence. By then it might be 3/4 off CD.
I've only ever had to blow through both once. Ever. And it was frightening.
I've had tanks pull from entry to first boss and I still didn't have to do that. *twitch*

-At a certain point, I observe how much damage the tank is taking and if I can factor in cast time to DPS or Holy, then I'll do it - if not just to stun.

Normally I rotate the two between pulls - one big pull = Presence; second big pull = Divine; Third = Presence, etc

I have a preference of not using medica II because I encounter a LOT of tanks and DPS that a.) don't wait and don't care that everything they go near is about to come at me bro (and DPS running off before the tank), b.) They don't flash anything as they're pulling... just run through and continue (TANKS PLEEAASEE FLASH YOUR STUFF ALONG THE WAY ;_; It makes me too nervous to drop a heal too soon! *scared*), c.) too busy heal bombing x_x

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tocsin

What I have been doing is:

at the start protect
start casting stoneskin 2, but by the time it completes everyone eklse is already 60+ yards away and sprinting towards mobs.
I rush after them, they gather, then stand in place.
I cast a regen on them as soon as I get in range, but by the time I get within 20 yards, tank is already dead.
Swiftcast + res
start casting holy
by the time holy finishes 1 dps is usually dead, if not I divine seal and start spamming cure 2 if the dps hasn't already ran out of range again
tank rezzes, I use benediction to get back up to health, 2nd dps dies
I usually end up dying by this point.

edit: this example is on brayflox hm

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Just read back over this and I think EmaraldAres is definitely right. The first and most critical issue is that the tank dies before you can get in range and start healing. Make sure you skip previously viewed cutscenes in your settings to give you a head start on buffs. Using sprint, he should not get out of range so easily, so concentrate on keeping up with him as closely as possible during pulls. If stoneskin + protect is up on the tank, you keep up at the start of the pull, and you then you cast regen, but he still dies before you can cast a cure 2, that's an indication he's probably not got high lvl gear or not using enough defensive buffs at the start of the pull, and/or your cast speed is slow still due to gear, and/or you need to cast the regen a little earlier as soon as, or even just before he stops. So, to counter this start with cure ii if necessary. If you still can't get in range sometimes before the enemies start pounding on him, you might need to use an emergency benediction or swiftcast cure ii as soon as in range.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saseal

When I identify that they're not continuing their pull (no more nearby monsters or theres a road block), I use Presence of Mind (my preference of the two buffs.... *shields face, since the rest of the thread seems to use Divine first*)
-Spam Cure II + SoS for enmity/MP
-Regen when they're -completely- topped off by a cure and I -think- they can withstand a few hits for the GCD (so in other words, not right away)

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Let me try to explain you why, in theory, it is better to use Divine Seal first:
If you use Presence of Mind, you cast 20% faster. This increases healing by a flat 20% and also increases your mana usage by 20%.
If you use Shroud like you mentioned, you burn it away quickly and your aggro at that moment will half, but you are spamming cure 2 with 20% more speed. Its better to use shroud at roughly 70% and once you really built some amount of aggro worth reducing.

Divine Seal on the other hand increases heal for a flat 30%. Without increasing mana cost.
Divined Seal'ed Regen ticks really strong, thats why it pay off casting with DS. Medica II will even more increase the heal over time ticks, so you buy yourself time to either holy spam or regen mana and or use cure instead of cure II.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spoekes

Let me try to explain you why, in theory, it is better to use Divine Seal first:.

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Okay, yeah - I see what you're saying - I'll try it the next time I end up in a speed run - and hopefully turn for a better strat.
I think my method of thinking just got burned into me too early by (possibly undergeared?) tanks that barely survived one cast of cure x_x (when I first encountered speed runs)

Also there is no need to wait with holy, even if you do momentarily pull, the tank should have no issues generating the emnity in the time the mobs are stunned and gives DPS etc a chance to start casting.

Sigh... this could go many ways.

Most often times (especially in the one you mentioned about the tank already being yards away by time the SSII cast goes off) that's just a impatient & bad tank. Sorry, can't excuse that fact. When I tank HM dungeons I ask the team if they want the massive speed runs (if we have the proper setup), not two NIN or 2 MNK or even a MNK and NIN. I usually leave it up to the healer to decide if they can handle speed runs or not, but even if they can't we still get through the dungeon fairly quickly, because the tank controls the pace. Also the tank you mention probably neglected to use his cool downs and most likely just mindlessly ran in and ran around, as if he were trying hopefully to dodge AoE's in all the clutter while spamming is AoE hate.

As for when I heal Speed runs w/ WHM, especially for the above scenario, I generally have Benediction ready for that type of tank who does not wait for buffs. After that, I generally apply regen (after he/she has all the hate and stops to continue grabbing that hate). From there it's usually just Cure spam and using my Freecure w/ Cure II and an occasional Medica II, in case DPS grabs hate from a random mob off the tank. As the group demolishes the final mob, just before it dies, I recast SS on the tank only, but I do keep SS on DPS and myself throughout the dungeon. It's just a matter of familiarizing yourself with the pace of the battle and how well the tank performs at managing the hate. In rare scenarios, where I have an under geared tank that can't take hits from cottonballs, I usually will pop CS (Cleric stance) after applying medica/regen to tank, waste my swift cast then Holy to get a group stun in order to kind of buy time to re apply SS and heal the tank before mobs recover.

One point of advice I can give is try not to get caught in GCD. If you regen a tank who has low HP, you may not have enough time to heal them before they die because of GCD. Try to regen when it is safe for you to not need to healbomb.

Most of the advice I would give was already given. It's all really good advice! I hope you have better luck in the future. :)

A few personal preferences:

Avoid casting regen at the very start of a pull if it's particularly big, if the tank doesn't manage cooldowns well, you may find that by the time you've got a cure going, they are potentially going to be super low as it is, personally I always start with a holy and go from there. The cast and stun buys you plenty of time to assess and adapt accordingly.

Secondly, if you are are allowing yourself to get 20+ yards from the tank then frankly you need to wake up and start anticipating the situation better. You need to be your tank's shadow between pulls, stick yourself 1 foot behind them and stay glued there until the mobs are rounded up. You have sprint, the tank likely doesn't, no excuses! =(

Lasty, WHM is a powerhouse in Brayflox once you get it down. Only BLM can can compete with us for DPS on some of those pulls. No other job has a chance if the tank is geared enough to hang in there and let you use cooldowns for damage. As mentioned, the next challenge is figuring out how to balance your MP usage so you don't become a burden between pulls.

Good luck, speed running is intense and enjoyable imo!

If you have swiftcast up for a big pull, what do you think is the best use for it?

1. Holy
2. Medica II
3. Stoneskin
4. Other