Ninja in Dungeon, Goad, Vent.

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Originally Posted by EricCartmenez

As a ninja, I don't mind giving it. It's on my hot bar. Unlike when I play bard, I don't know when TP is low, I'm not going to be able to guess if I'm a little early, so I don't use it preemptively.

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There isnt a too early with goad though. For example on T8 when you need to feed multiple tp users the trick is to give it to one of them like 10 seconds into the fight and the other one as soon as its available again.

Sounds like just bad ninja'ing to me. I usually will just throw it out there if I see our WAR in a dungeon doing big pulls or if the other DPS is physical and doing a lot of AOEs.

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Originally Posted by EricCartmenez

That said, what did tanks do before goad?

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Played more conservatively. However, with Goad, we can continue doing AOE DPS without worry. Of course this is specifically for WARs, as PLD uses MP and doesn't do damage outside of CoS which costs nothing. Goading a WAR/MNK/DRG can help a lot in a quick dungeon run.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EricCartmenez

As a ninja, I don't mind giving it. It's on my hot bar. Unlike when I play bard, I don't know when TP is low, I'm not going to be able to guess if I'm a little early, so I don't use it preemptively. That said, what did tanks do before goad?

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We sucked it up. And when there's not a ninja, I don't got a problem. But again.. it's DPS on the table. If i'm Berserked/Unchained/Internal Released then I'm a Tank that is a DPS for the duration of those abilities. And the most damaging thing I can do with 8 enemies, is Spam Overpower.

Personally i think War/Ninja should have an unspoken agreement. War "I'll keep slashing debuff up" Ninja, "I'll goad ya when it's up".

If your not using it, it's a wasted space on your hotbar.

Tank, pull already.
Pull?
Go!

~same idea.

PUG Ninjas are the worst. I think I only get Goad from a Ninja bout 10% of them I ask. The other 90% are very unsurprising though, as they never use Huton either.

In your case, OP, vote kicking is probably the best thing to do as he was being aggressive towards you.

I play WAR as well, so don't think I'm one of those, "what the heck do you need more TP for?" types. I understand the rotation, and I certainly get that TP is how we can use more Overpower and other such TP munchers. With a 180s CD, throwing it up there preemptively means I might not have it available when you need it. To the OP's point, you say, "Goad me, bro", it's done. It helps to add a little sound effect to bring attention to the chat. Yeah, single tanking turn 8, grabbing up the dreadnoughts, I hear ya. I know you'll need it. Palladin's been shield lobbing constantly, of course. I'm not stupid. But let's say we start that same fight and I throw Goad. 2 minutes later, you're hit with the need to flood the room with overpower and goad is long gone and a minute away. 60 seconds is approximately 18 moves away. Plenty of time for things to go awry. I'm not saying that I don't hand it out if I think a tank might need it, but I'm not throwing it up just because it's there.

Let's say we're in Sastasha HM, tank runs towards the first mob, do I throw it up right away? Boom, I hit him. Then he collects the mobs to make a large pull. Doesn't really use a lot of TP doing that, just a couple overpowers/tomahawk and we get to the last trash pull. Goad is gone or just about gone. Sorry, thought you wanted it 15 seconds ago. Now you only have it for 15s, not 30. A little communication, maybe? Now we get to the drowned wench and her helpers. Same idea, which one is when you need it? First? Second? Going to have to manage TP in there. And we're on to Capt Madison. Going to need plenty for the end of that fight. How about when we get to the final trash pull before the boss? We all know that the boss isn't tanked anyway, so when is TP most important?

I'm only guessing, but I would think that a WAR would want to manage TP when possible and ask for goad when necessary. Are there times when you can just use it and there are no worries? Sure. But how about the tank makes that call or the next thread is, "The lolNIN is always goading right away, so I never get TP when I need it. Sorry, goad's on CD."

Seen this with SMN who don't use their Eye for an Eye (at all - or intelligently).

Granted, nowhere near as useful as Goad. Regardless, I have seen tanks and healers alike that will spank a SMN for not popping it at least on the bosses.

I've not run into that issue yet, but I use it as often as I can. Especially on big packs of trash pulls or on boss fights. If I were a NIN, I'd expect I would use it no less intelligently. At a minimum, communicate a little.

Never had a problem w/Ninjas using Goad on me, I'll usually ask nicely, and it is received. I really like it, but there are very few times I've actually felt as if I needed it. Namely in Satasha right before the last boss where all those adds come out of no where, that can be troublesome depending. I think that's the only time I regularly request Goad, it simply makes riding "I have TP v I have hate" line easier to ride.

I managed to get into T10 with a DRG that had never partied with a ninja before me and I popped goad on him as the first add phase was starting and over TS we all hear, "What the hell is goad?" We ended up laughing so hard we wiped.