Questiona about Mother Hydaelyn

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Originally Posted by Alenore

Well, we live on Hydaelyn. If we "created" Zodiark and Hydaelyn, where were we before that? :p

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Whilst our world is called Hydaelyn it is separate from the mothercrystal herself of the same name. Hydaelyn the mothercrystal exists in the aetherial realm and all aether in the world of Hydaelyn comes from her and returns to her via the lifestream.

Hydaelyn is both the world and the creator, though they are actually separate entities sharing the same name.

I wouldn't think we created them via some summoning equivalent though. Ramuh's suggestion, when paired with Lahabrea's (potentially false) explanations, would mean that Hydaelyn created the mortal races and broke the balance in doing so. That may not be the case, and even if it were we have no idea what that actually means for the wider scope of the story. If Hydaelyn did indeed break the balance as Lahabrea suggests then I would assume she had a reason for doing so as she has put her own existence in danger as a result.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

Whilst our world is called Hydaelyn it is separate from the mothercrystal herself of the same name. Hydaelyn the mothercrystal exists in the aetherial realm and all aether in the world of Hydaelyn comes from her and returns to her via the lifestream.

Hydaelyn is both the world and the creator, though they are actually separate entities sharing the same name.

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I'd really love a quote saying Hydaelyn is in the aetherial realm. Right now it's a but fuzzy, but from what we know, the world is Hydaelyn as in "Hydaelyn created the world" (which also fits with other FFs lore).

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Originally Posted by Alenore

I'd really love a quote saying Hydaelyn is in the aetherial realm. Right now it's a but fuzzy, but from what we know, the world is Hydaelyn as in "Hydaelyn created the world" (which also fits with other FFs lore).

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The 2.3 story has a section where Minfillia gives us exposition on the concept of aether and how it works. One of the points was that when a being dies its aether returns to the aetherial realm. We know that Hydaelyn is the source of aether and that she regulates the lifestream (and the return of corrupted aether to her is what harms her) so from there it is a fair assumption that she is in the aetherial realm.

Hydaelyn the world and Hydaelyn the mothercrystal are not the same thing. If they were the same then aether wouldn't return to another dimension, it would return to the planet itself, which it doesn't in XIV's universe.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

Hydaelyn the world and Hydaelyn the mothercrystal are not the same thing. If they were the same then aether wouldn't return to another dimension, it would return to the planet itself, which it doesn't in XIV's universe.

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Doesn't it, though? I always thought that aether returned to both the aetherial realm and the planet - maybe they're a lot more closely related than we think. The Lifestream is mentioned multiple times throughout different FATEs and quests, specifically as the place where spirits go after they die. Though I may be looking at it in terms of VII's universe.

Unless I'm confusing myself and the aetherial realm and the Lifestream are the same thing. Oooor the aetherial realm is where the aether goes, but a person's "soul" (their memories, personalities, anything that isn't part of their physical body or the aether) goes to the Lifestream (heaven?).

How much do we know about XIV's Lifestream, anyway?

Hey, though it is mere speculation on my part from bits and pieces I'v picked up through the story and from the lore thread and may be way off, here one of my theories:

We know Primals are beings summoned by aether and prayers, I believe since the summoning of Great King Moogle Mog that primals are created through strong enough prayer and an abundance of aether. This theory would put into question how each summoning summons the same primal and why new primals aren't made often. However I believ this is due to belief, it is easier to pray to something you believe exists, for examples primales you have heard that have been summoned in the past or a legendery figure like King Moogle Mog (possible Odin), and once created they are part of the lifestream

We know aeather has been around since the start of the world since it's the source of life (I believe, not sure if I'm mixing up the lifestream explanation Minfilla gave). I believe the Hydaelyn and Zodiark are the first to forms the aether was given through strong belief of mortals light and dark, life and death. I believe that the primels are smaller fragments of the Hydaelyns aether given form through belief (hence why Ramuh remebers a time before light and dark before man when the aether was whole). I believe that Hydaelyn is weakened because something that is broken is difficult to put together again. I believe that the balance the Aciens seek is to return everything back to aether ending all mortal life.
Well that's my theory it's probably full of holes but maybe but maybe it'll help give a different perceptive.

Taking final fantasy 3 as a basis, balance needs to be maintained between light and dark. when one becomes too powerful warriors are cerated to being back balance. Or to end up pushing the other back and tip the scales the other way. In FF3 dark was dominant so Warriors of light appeared, yet in the story it mentions when light was dominant warriors of dark appeared.

So we are Warriors of Light, are Ascians warriors of dark?

When you are unlocking Leviabeetus (sic) you find out that through the power of the echo you can take over another body if yours dies, as shown by the Sahagin priest. Something which the Ascians do, which gives further credence to the Ascians being warriors of dark if they have been given the power of the Echo by Zodiark. As I'm assuming Warriors of dark would be given pretty much the same abilities as those of light.

Or where they warriors of light that where converted/corrupted to follow Zodiark?

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Taking final fantasy 3 as a basis, balance needs to be maintained between light and dark. when one becomes too powerful warriors are cerated to being back balance. Or to end up pushing the other back and tip the scales the other way. In FF3 dark was dominant so Warriors of light appeared, yet in the story it mentions when light was dominant warriors of dark appeared.

So we are Warriors of Light, are Ascians warriors of dark?

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This is exactly what I was getting at.

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Originally Posted by Kyle2006

We know Primals are beings summoned by aether and prayers, I believe since the summoning of Great King Moogle Mog that primals are created through strong enough prayer and an abundance of aether. This theory would put into question how each summoning summons the same primal and why new primals aren't made often. However I believ this is due to belief, it is easier to pray to something you believe exists, for examples primales you have heard that have been summoned in the past or a legendery figure like King Moogle Mog (possible Odin), and once created they are part of the lifestream

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Although we may be branching a bit, here's something more to think about (let's see if I can explain it well enough):

What if these primals were nothing before they were first summoned. 100% did not exist. Now, imagine someone/something decided to pray for someone/something to come save them from somethingsomthingterrible over a bunch of "sacred crystals" they had found and gathered. Then, where there was no being before, sprung a creature from these "sacred crystals" to answer their prayers. These, people, we'll say, created this being themselves.
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So, this primal was birthed in our realm originally, from nothing but crystallized aether, hopes and wishes. Now, you could say that this is how summoning is done every time and that they are created from scratch on each occasion. But, I think we would have seen some sort of telephone game happening. Either the same primal would never be summoned twice or the same primal would be summoned slightly different each time with a slightly different attitude and probably no memory or knowledge other than what its' creators (worshipers) gave it.

I see this possibility as unlikely, as, at least in the 'modern' primals, their consciousness seems consistent. So, for the sake of this theory, let's rule that out and continue.
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The primal then wanders the world after it completed the assigned task until one day some guys with giant balls come to challenge it (they'd have to to fight a 'god', right?). They end up winning and the primal is now dead x_x . So, all that aether the primal (and everything else for that matter, save for voidsent) was composed of now has to go somewhere, right? Back to the planet/lifestream/hydaelyn! However, when this aether goes back, the particles/whateveritsmadeupof, retain memory and reform the being it once was, but now on the aethereal plane, similar to how we, the PC, de/materialize on either side of aetheryte. Now there's a, for all intents and purposes, living being in the aethereal realm and all it needs to come back to its' home is a door, one that's opened for it specifically by people praying reeeeeally hard, begging it to come through, and who have lots 'n' lots of aether to help it materialize on the other side, consider it a make-shift aetheryte. Easy~peasy.

Oh, yeah, and the more aether these people have, the more the primal absorbs and the more powerful it becomes.

^ So, in other words... which came first, the believer or the primal?

If the primal didn't exist, how did the believer come to "know" about it?

But if the believer didn't believe, how would the primal exist in the first place?

Let's just say that the believer(s) had faith, in something. They weren't quite sure what they were doing, they just wanted someone to come help them and *POOF* out comes a baby primal. =D

Or they could have been praying to the crystal itself. Here we are, way, way back and we find these pretty crystalline rocks that have strange attributes. That's more than enough to start a religion.

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

They weren't quite sure what they were doing, they just wanted someone to come help them and *POOF* out comes a baby primal.

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Hee... :p

I like the idea that "the same primal would be summoned slightly different each time", though. It's one way to rationalise the ever-stronger iterations of each primal we face.

By the same token, each primal should be terrified of being forgotten, for that would mean its death.

This concept of worship and existence has been pretty popular in modern graphic novels, like Neil Gaiman's The Sandman.