Good Solution To End Game Raid Issues

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Originally Posted by Fendred

What harm would it do? Seriously, if they can't even make it through a solo encounter where the only thing holding them back is themselves, then what good are they to a static or any other end game group where those mechanics will be all the time?

That's the point.

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Ah, but it goes both ways......

What good are you if you arent willing to take time to teach people how to get past those things they have trouble with?

Did no one ever take the time to teach/train you, or were you born with the ability to do everything in life without anyone helping?

TSW actually has a system like this. Fittingly, it's called the "gatekeeper", and has tanking, healing, and DPS versions you can do. In the healing version in particular, you have to take care of DPS NPCs that sometimes stand in AoE, raid damage, and aggro moving between the melees. In all of them you also have to dodge.

Unfortunately, I can't really say it helps with elitists. People still want you to link high end loot, have top end gear, have clear exp, etc etc.

That said, it is a wakeup call for a lot of players that get that far.

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Originally Posted by Teirshin

Ah, but it goes both ways......

What good are you if you arent willing to take time to teach people how to get past those things they have trouble with?

Did no one ever take the time to teach/train you, or were you born with the ability to do everything in life without anyone helping?

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Because there are people who rage quit after two attempts when the going gets tough or aren't willing to put the time down to do the fights. You can't help people who do nothing to help themselves.

So I've made two different suggestions on this board. On the first one, everyone seems to like it, but detractors wine about how it would waste development time on creating a tuned down variant of the current stuff even though it would have no effect on the content they are running.

I then suggest the opposite solution, and people now complain about how it's horrible that my suggestion would segregate the community (like it isn't already...) and somehow I'm a terrible person for even suggesting it.

So, according to these forums, the act of thinking is a punishable offense. I think these forums need to chill. Seriously, just chill.

They will never design a system that outright tells players "You're bad". They rather keep the illusion so people keep paying (and wiping in pugs). Solution: Be smart. Many solutions have been provided in this thread and others. Use it.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

They will never design a system that outright tells players "You're bad". They rather keep the illusion so people keep paying (and wiping in pugs). Solution: Be smart. Many solutions have been provided in this thread and others. Use it.

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They are irrelevant because the topic of the thread is about a potential development solution, and has nothing to do with whether I can or can't currently raid. Those "suggestions" you mentioned are all formed on baseless assumptions that I cannot raid, therefore I have created a constructive post as a form of complaint. That in and of itself makes little sense, given the constructive nature of the post. So again, they are irrelevant suggestions being given by people making baseless presumptions about the poster's motives instead of the contents of the post.

The "solo test" thing won't fix anything.

The problem comes from the human social behaviour itself.
It's also known as: "The more people in a group, the more retarded the whole group is".

This is why any big Hunt group is called a "zerg" and has the intellectual quotient of an oyster.
No matter what the skill of a player on its own is.

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Originally Posted by Teirshin

Ah, but it goes both ways......

What good are you if you arent willing to take time to teach people how to get past those things they have trouble with?

Did no one ever take the time to teach/train you, or were you born with the ability to do everything in life without anyone helping?

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No one can use your mouse and keyboard to dodge stuff for you, that's on your own and being able to dodge stuff is a something people still have problems with despite the fact that there is a huge indicator telling you to get out of it.

You know what a good long-term solution to this is? Killing the elitist attitudes, letting players gain experience at a decent pace, and not expecting a 1-shot KO every time.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

They are irrelevant because the topic of the thread is about a potential development solution, and has nothing to do with whether I can or can't currently raid. Those "suggestions" you mentioned are all formed on baseless assumptions that I cannot raid, therefore I have created a constructive post as a form of complaint. That in and of itself makes little sense, given the constructive nature of the post. So again, they are irrelevant suggestions being given by people making baseless presumptions about the poster's motives instead of the contents of the post.

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And I'm telling you that your potential development solution is not a well thought out one for reasons Teirshin and I mentioned. I don't think anyone, at least not me, have made any assumptions about you. But it seems to be you seek to champion a cause speaking on behalf of all mid-core raiders and what they want. The truth is that no system works perfectly. Not yours, not Blizzards, not SE. You can't speak for everyone. What can be mentioned though are potential solutions to improve chances of success for raiding, and one of these is to form a static, which I will again mention, is not that difficult to do. You (not you specifically, but the generic you) need to make sacrifices if you want to achieve any degree of success, and it works in real life or in game as well)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fendred

What harm would it do? Seriously, if they can't even make it through a solo encounter where the only thing holding them back is themselves, then what good are they to a static or any other end game group where those mechanics will be all the time?

That's the point.

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they still add to the subscription fee which gets us more content developed.

there should be more tutorial quests even at max level but that's all they should be.