Miqo'te Male/Female Relations and Views on Marriage

Well, not to drag things down an unrelated science tangent, but inbreeding depression affects a lot more than just undesirable recessives coming to the fore more often. There is also increased autoimmune disorders and high fetal death / failure to thrive over time, the more a population becomes inbred. Some animals (in real life, I mean) have higher tolerance for inbreeding but past a certain point it always becomes fatal to a species or strain.

I don't know why, but I get the feeling that male keepers (exluding the couerl king) may be treated more as a commodity by the matriarchs.

Basically, the matriarchs keeps as much males as possible and pass / trade them along to other females to breed with as a reward.

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Originally Posted by myahele

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That's the kind of thinking I was going for. That males are a commodity and that they are like a status symbol and a matriarch that has access to a lot has a lot of power... My character's family was like that, and she really liked her brother, so when she learned he wanted to run away from an overbearing mother, well, she went with him :3 Now she's just as relieved to have escaped her mother as her brother was to go. But we wanted to iron out and make clear what kind of details that involved, if there were "marriages" at all or if for them a "marriage" was considered just a breeding contract for a period of time with a male from another matriarch's house. It's nice to hear other people's thoughts on the matter as if it's not set in stone, perhaps us brainstorming may make it to devs to pick up on and clarify things. ^_^

I feel like the Keepers are too much of a "family" society to treat males as just breeding objects. It's been stated that they are organized as family units rather than clans, and your father/mate/husband/brother being treated as a "commodity" just doesn't sound very family-like to me!

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Originally Posted by Velox

Y'shtola

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This reminds me, although slightly off-topic. There's a Sunnie involved with the Amal'jaa. I can't remember her story, but she left her clan to be assimilated into the Amal'jaa society. In doing so, she dropped her clan letter. Now, I can't say for certain, but Y'shtola seems to be devoted to the Scions. She must have left her clan to spend more time with them, but she still has her clan letter, a "Y". If she left the clan, her name would be Shtola. I think there are other occurances of Sunnies leaving their clan to live in the cities, and when that happens, they're supposed to drop their clan letter.

My thinking is more on the science aspect of this discussion. We know there are inter-species relationships. Two members of different species cannot create offspring. We have an instinct to pass on our genetic code to our offspring. So I'd like to know the thought process of these "races" marrying a different race if that means there will be no offspring. These races are more like species instead of races.

Or it could be just a fantasy game so science doesn't count.

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Originally Posted by Lucke

She must have left her clan to spend more time with them, but she still has her clan letter, a "Y". If she left the clan, her name would be Shtola. I think there are other occurances of Sunnies leaving their clan to live in the cities, and when that happens, they're supposed to drop their clan letter.

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Loohn Gah, is, I think, an exception. She joined the Amal'jaa because her mother was 'killed' (actually tempered, as you learn) by them while she was a babe, and she was rescued by the Brotherhood of Ash. She never grew up in Sunnie culture.

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Originally Posted by Lucke

So I'd like to know the thought process of these "races" marrying a different race if that means there will be no offspring. These races are more like species instead of races.

Or it could be just a fantasy game so science doesn't count.

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Word of the Ferne is that the five races at least can interbreed. If this means they are compatable with the beast tribes as well, I don't know. There is some evidence that more than just the five races can interbreed: Cid references "pure Garleans" implying that there is such a thing as impure Garleans.

. . . and G'raha Tia's family line crossed with an Allagan at some point (which may or may not be its own "race").

"Race" seems to me to be the most accurate term.

Edit:
There were previous discussions about interbreeding here and here.

Ferne's post

For anyone who's interested. :)

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Originally Posted by RickiFake02

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So...back on track... Every member of a Keeper "family" has a role to play, and with males being rare, that role is of course to help propagate the species, and being male probably does bring esteem to his mother/family matriarch. Different families can treat the members differently depending on the personality of the matriarch. So some matriarchs may consider males to be a commodity that brings them esteem because they get benefits for their sons and the ties they get to other families through them. Other matriarchs may just love their children as children, male or female. "Family" groups really just means that every member is related through and associated with a consecutive bloodline. Hearing what people have to say has really started to help me put a bigger world view into perspective.

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Edit: While I can recall a number of Seeker prostitutes, dancing girls and cross racial pairings, I don't remember any Keeper ones. If that's the case it might be more evidence for Keeper relationships being more structured. Or perhaps its just a consequence of their matriarchal society.

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I remember this distinctly from 1.0, though the dancing girls still exist on the Ruby Road Exchange. As a result of this, I have my own head-canon, so take the following with a generous chunk of Volcanic Salt. I believe that anyone born in a tribe, Seeker or Keeper, who chooses to leave is also essentially choosing to give up tribal mores and adopt the values of whichever city-state they choose to reside in. This explains why Seekers in Ul'dah tend to find themselves in the jobs that they do, very much starting at the bottom of society. Things are much different in Grid, where the Keepers have, sometimes grudgingly, integrated into the more collectivist, tight-knit community that is Gridania. In Limsa, it seems that Miqo's are more likely to find themselves working in the trades, even as immigrants, if they can prove their skill. If it weren't so, I don't think we'd have H'naanza, the novice Arcanist, the "tourist bureau" ladies who appear to be working for the Limsa Government. Even the situation with Baderon's tavern wench seems to indicate that, while not as communal as Grid, Limsa is more welcoming of outsiders who are willing to work than Ul'dah is. Ul'dah's disdain for immigrants is evidenced from the fall of Ala Mihgo to the Doman Crisis seen in patch 2.2 main scenario.

As far as tribe structure goes, I'm inclined to believe that most Keeper tribes have Matriarchs who prefer to treat males as commodities for breeding whereas we know that in Seeker culture that any male can defeat a Nuhn in 1 on 1 combat to take the title for himself. In this sense, Seeker culture actually allows for their men to choose the life they would have for themselves. The near-absence of Keeper male NPC's leads me to believe that Keeper Matriarchs have probably taken that choice away from the men of their tribes. I would call this the FFXI model, as it is known that exceedingly few Male Mithra take any sort of high-visibility career due to the over-protection foisted upon them by the majority female population. Without further quests relating to my Clan, we may never know the truth of it. As a nocturnal culture that is also Matriarchal, I find the Keepers fascinating. It occurs to me that Gridanian Keepers lose something of their culture to live among people who are active during the day. On the other hand, the communal religious nature of Grid probably makes that city closer to a tribe than the other two city states.

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Originally Posted by Saikou

It occurs to me that Gridanian Keepers lose something of their culture to live among people who are active during the day. On the other hand, the communal religious nature of Grid probably makes that city closer to a tribe than the other two city states.

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They seem to hang on to some aspects of it since we don't see Keeper Males in Gridania though presumably there are some living there alongside their female relatives. They may adapt to day living but, Moon bless them, they're keeping their males cloistered - just because they're living in the city now doesn't mean they're going to abandon all sense of moral decency, damn it.

Tangential to the topic of this thread but I would really like to see some Miqo'te younglings, either Seeker or Keeper. Keeper children may understandably stay hidden away with their fathers until the girls mature but it's slightly strange to me that there aren't any Seeker kids at all in Forgotten Springs.