Pugilist role in groups... a Tank or a Damage Dealer?

i always had to tank with my DRG in 11 LS made me cause teh PLD war nin tanks couldnt keep hate off me>< but yeah pug tanking is fun just a lil bit harder now

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Originally Posted by Murugan

Taunt wasn't nerfed maybe you just don't understand what Taunt does. If you are using taunt as your primary means to build enmity you are doing it wrong.

I only use taunt when I need to focus the mob on me. So if I have aggro, and unless for some reason I know my enmity is gonna dip, I never use taunt. Taunt is much too valuable to be wasting like that.

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I forgot to say...you're correct. I was giving taunt a try one of these days...it indeed does not generate enmity anymore.

I see the PUG as being intended as a "scrapper" his role is to attach to stray agro's and mobs that run off toward the squishy back rank fellows that the main tank maybe too busy to deal with on account of him fighting for his life. Seems SE intended to add elements from other mmo's to the current classes so as not to make them just DD onry archer excluded. MRD might currently stink but he's supposed stand next to tank and draw agro with AoE, LNC support dd designed to stick hate and buff the melee effort while PUG is to stand ready waiting for unexcpected developments and deal with them like rogue'ish independant hero that he is. I have a PUG that I play with that personifies this perfectly always running off to hold mobs while the main group deals with the original threat. I think the new star wars mmo also has taken the jedi class to do this very thing.

I think we need to wait for the new job system. maybe it can do both, under different jobs. for example

Pugilist > Monk = DD
Pugilist > (something) = Tank

Speculation but, they did say the job system was for each job to do a specific role.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I'm getting kinda tired of the forums saying I can't tank, when my LS and I know better. :(

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What's this silly LS you speak of?

Seriously speaking though, PGL was an awesome tank pre-1.18 and is now more clearly than ever an offensive tank.

PGL has no trouble holding hate - hell it can hold hate better than a GLA. It's the survival aspect. PGL needs to evade to tank effectively and Light Strike's continuous buff was a huge boon to that end. The move has been gimped to become situational now and I can say firsthand I do not evade nearly as much.

However, provided you rank GLA and MRD to basically 50 and get all them sub skills, well no shit you can tank :D But honestly if I managed to get GLA or MRD to 50 I'd rather tank on them at this point.

PGL is being made more and more into a DD, but where it really shines is being the best solo class.

After 1.18a my PUG deals a shitload of damage with weaponskills. Guess it's a DD now? I mean, it has the potential to off-tank when the GLA is getting pwnd and needs a quick break. Or when the mages pull too much hate. Taunt is still a very useful skill, but it's recast is 50 seconds. So I guess PUG is now a decent DD with situational off-tanking potential.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

However, provided you rank GLA and MRD to basically 50 and get all them sub skills, well no shit you can tank :D But honestly if I managed to get GLA or MRD to 50 I'd rather tank on them at this point.

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Nah, absolute highest I'm getting GLA to anytime soon is 36. Maybe 40 if I decide I need Provoke II. That Obsess II you see at 48 isn't worth it to me. :p

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

What's this silly LS you speak of?

Seriously speaking though, PGL was an awesome tank pre-1.18 and is now more clearly than ever an offensive tank.

PGL has no trouble holding hate - hell it can hold hate better than a GLA. It's the survival aspect. PGL needs to evade to tank effectively and Light Strike's continuous buff was a huge boon to that end. The move has been gimped to become situational now and I can say firsthand I do not evade nearly as much.

However, provided you rank GLA and MRD to basically 50 and get all them sub skills, well no shit you can tank :D But honestly if I managed to get GLA or MRD to 50 I'd rather tank on them at this point.

PGL is being made more and more into a DD, but where it really shines is being the best solo class.

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Welcome to FFXIV?

If you want to tank well on any class (including GLA) you need more than one job 45+. A Pugilist can tank without Defender II, just like a Gladiator can, but they aren't going to be as good as one with it.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

Welcome to FFXIV?

If you want to tank well on any class (including GLA) you need more than one job 45+. A Pugilist can tank without Defender II, just like a Gladiator can, but they aren't going to be as good as one with it.

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I know....

Yoshi-P has already stated that classes are more for light parties, and that the upcoming jobs are designed for full parties.

Unfortunately all we have is classes atm, gla mrd and pgl are all about the same tanking wise, some being better at tanking some monsters than others, but not a large enough difference for any of the 3 to clearly outshine the others.

Gladiator has a shield for blocking, and can evade and parry with a lower chance than the respective classes.

Marauder has a huge HP pool and parry, but can also evade about the same as gladiator.

Pugilist has evasion, and partial parry, which while this may make them the weakest defender, they also have the most devastating returns for attacks they evade.

Now some say, well gladiator can wear all the best evasion gear and use feather foot to further enhance this. They can also get a high parry weapon and use foresight to enhance parry as well. Basically it comes down to them being the only war class that can wield a shield, but at the same time, gladiators usually sacrifice lots of their damage and weapon skills for more defense and enmity abilities. this makes them the slowest to grab a good amount of hate. They also hold hate poorly because steady damage holds better hate and for longer than these enmity abilities. Even with max HP gladiators can still quickly go down on Batraal if swords come up at a bad time, or any number of things.

Once jobs are introduced we may see a clear leader but for now each of the 3 tank classes has it's strength and weakness.