a pretty serious question

Setting aside specifics, FFXI did some things well. There's a REASON the game lasted for eleven years and is still going - there's a lot that it did right. SE can and SHOULD, on occasion, look to their past successes in FFXI for inspiration when adding new content to FFXIV.

Coming back to specifics, though, of course, there's plenty that FFXI did WRONG, and hunts stink pretty potently of some of those mistakes that SE should have learned from... I won't go into specifics, as there are dozens of threads already devoted to that. -_-;;

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I think he's talking specifically about the exclusivity of certain content - content that favors those who manipulate other players, hoard things to themselves and sometimes flat out cheat. I, too, got the feeling that this patch pulled a Tanaka-Yoshida switch... Some of this content has Tanaka written all over it.

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that, it what i means mostly, this two last patch in some content look a lot at what we did get in the V1 under tanaka... i feel they are doing huge mistake, because they listen too much to some comment and forget the past error.
the hunt we have are dumb and bad, whatever they do will not change it. it don't give teeth to the world since most of them are Zerged by a huge pack of mindless player that only see into this a way to get fast Sand/oil.

for the relic part, i don't feel any achievement to get the animus, only a feeling oe deject and no more of this. it was possible to do this better, and less.... grindfest. indeed we are far of some grind of FF11, but it seems they try to increase artificially the life of the game by adding mindless content.

the live letter don't have make me feel that they did listen, when i see Yoshida say that the reward of the Rank B, A, S are not the trouble but that they need to increase the reward of the daily, i feel it don't look at the picture.
on one side we do have a content that will take you between 2 at 4 month for get a i110 weapon and on the other side you have the hunt that allows you to get an i110 armor extremely fast, but only for the fastest player or the more organized. (if not an elite)

i feel the balance of the game it's all over the place, i feel they try to satisfy way too many community and don't know how balance all. instead to make them game, they try to make a game that will please every type of player, what is not possible.

and the recent add, are more for please the FF11 player and nostalgic one. we had already ingame some feature that was only need some update for create a hunt more balanced...
like make the daily and weekly, use the leves and faction leves (from the v1 this one) systeme, allowing people to play with them friend when they want. it was even possible to add content for all sort of guild via the Faction leves, addind a slider for choice the number of people that will face the boss.

use the already existant boss FATE and add some level 50, for give acces to more people the feeling of the hunt.

and finally create S rank monster that will be hunted like we have right now, but with a lower respawn time and reward. (48 hours is far too long and if the boss is killed while the slow hours of the server population, most of the server will never see it)

i feel they really need to look at the bigger picture and more important at all the stuff they did in the last year, all the trouble and think more before add content that can create inbalance and bad blood in the community.

ps: and i'm a bit scared too that they start to forget that the game have a community outside japan. the live letter have leave me a feeling of let out one more time, no translation, and we did get a lot of question about frontline, because japanese play it a lot.
in the past reinhart was covering this lack, but now they really need to work on this, it's important or this live letter will be taken more and more like an insult to the other community. or maybe this live letter are only for the japanese player?

NM you see from hunt is Far far far from actual NM in FF11.

1. you can't zerg fest.
2. it take brain, effort, teamwork to win.
3. it is not casual content such as this.

So all in all, you simply misunderstand, this isn't concept from FF11.

the concept and how it's applicate are 2 different thing. the concept are rare monster that pop randomly in the area, dropping an item that have some importance (here the bloody log and the allied seal)
in FF11 they did work on making them harder, because the game was adapted to it, here in FF14 it's not adapted to that concept, the FATE system, even if it's not perfect can be make better and was more adapted to the population of the game actual.

Also, I think people misunderstood hugely if you think that those hunt mark are something to satisfy FF11 players. All of them talk trash back on Mon Hunt, and nobody that I know from FF11 seem to satisfy of this zerg-fest. Yoshida simply try to imitate a content from FF11 that end up fail on all respects from any side of players.

It's not that they are copying concepts - it's just an overall "Feel" of the content that has been implemented. Broken, untested things that are either completely RNG based or grindfest. Atma is one problem, these hunts are a terrible system that don't have anything that resembles a proper risk\effort:reward ratio. I expected them to be much more epic battles, but no, they are broken and prone to exploitation.

Also the idea that a select few on any given server should have access to the top things is straight out of the XI handbook.

When folks asked for more XI-ish stuff, they didn't mean broken systems that weren't fun, they meant more lore\monsters\jobs\epic scale battles. I'm just not sure where Yoshi-P's head is at with some of these things.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Setting aside specifics, FFXI did some things well. There's a REASON the game lasted for eleven years and is still going - there's a lot that it did right. SE can and SHOULD, on occasion, look to their past successes in FFXI for inspiration when adding new content to FFXIV.;

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NO, NO, NO Just NOOO. Yes FFXI back then was great. And yes it did a lot things right Back then. If you´d do such a Hardcore MMO NOW in 2014! It will fail even harder then FFXIV 1.0. You simply can´t do this anymore. Guess why Abyssea came, to nerf the whole Game

XI: At least 5 inventory quests to do before you have a decent sized inventory.
XIV: nnnnnope.

XI: 5 real life hours being required for the chocobo riding quest.
XIV: nnnnope.

XI: Combat skills, meaning hours and hours of letting stuff wail on you so you can block/dodge/parry worth a damn for your level.
XIV: nnnnope.

XI: Being able to access certain areas is dependent on how far in an expansion you are.
XIV: nnnnope.

XIV: modifiers, submodifiers, sub-submodifiers requiring gear changes for every skill you use.
XIV: nope.

...Or is this all because you saw a few mandragora/wamoura models being used?

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Originally Posted by Ryans

FFXI had an NM system that worked because they dropped specific items (sometimes pretty good items, but mostly low level things) and were claim=credit.

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The NM system of FFXI did not work. As bad as hunts currently are, they're still better than what we had in FFXI.

And yeah, I do see a lot of the bad things in FFXI making it's way to FFXIV. While I personally have no issues with the current relic quest since I like having a big objective to work for, other recent additions to the game are giving me that "bad thing that was in FFXI" feel:

- Forcing specializations in Desynthesis. In FFXI we were forced to become a specialized crafter. FFXIV was awesome in that we could level every craft on a single character. Then people started whining on the forums about having too much competition when selling stuff, and that the economy was bad because things were cheap. And now we have specializations that serve no purpose beyond allowing a select few players to jack up prices.

- Chocobo raising requiring items that can only be obtained from gardening. There's simply no way that the land that is currently available in the game will allow every player to be able to raise a chocobo even if they just fed them once per day. The issue with Magicked brooms was just crazy and fortunately they're going to correct that mistake. The chocobo feed problem will at least be solved with personal housing having gardens.

- Dyeing relic gear. The item requirements for this are simply ridiculous.

- Getting the 2.2 Fishing rod.

In the end, the battle portion of the game doesn't really have any real grind issues (compared to FFXI at least). Probably because that's what Yoshi-P likes the most so he is more directly involved with that.

Side activities like gathering, crafting and chocobo raising? Yeah, the FFXI developers are having a field day.

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Originally Posted by Electrowitch

NO, NO, NO Just NOOO. Yes FFXI back then was great. And yes it did a lot things right Back then. If you´d do such a Hardcore MMO NOW in 2014! It will fail even harder then FFXIV 1.0. You simply can´t do this anymore. Guess why Abyssea came, to nerf the whole Game

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You underlined a sentence and yet you failed to understand it, by your logic FFXIV shouldn't take any ideas from FFXI, but it takes some from wow...

FFXI had some great features, and SE MUST take them into consideration, the same way they have to take other MMOs, because this is a FF and that means they have to please a large and very different player/fan-base than any other MMO, not only what casual or hardcore players want.

Frankly, the displease of some players to FFXI matters very little, SE will do what their fans ask for, and if you don't like it, they will still listen to you and make content you can enjoy, you just have to stick to it.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

The NM system of FFXI did not work. As bad as hunts currently are, they're still better than what we had in FFXI.

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Thta's just a bad joke and you sir have no idea, ppl should talk only about things they know, the NM system worked in FFXI, it doesn't matter if you liked it or not.