Names for Tempering

Ironically enough, after going back through my 1.0 screenshots, it indeed seems that there was only one instance of tempering being actually referred to as such in 1.0, and it was stated by the most unlikely of sources, an apparent tempered themself! (during the main scenario quest 'Lord Errant' when the player is captured by the amalj'aa and held prisoner briefly in that cell in Zan'rak with several other prisoners):

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Originally Posted by version 1.0 npc 'Emotionless Prisoner'

"Once you have been tempered in the flames, you shall be born anew. As was I."

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Perhaps even more interesting is the fact that if this npc really was tempered, the fact he actually comprehended his situation and actually knew what had happened to him, seems to blow away completely the idea that tempered lose their 'free will' - in actual fact, it seems more accurate that tempering removes a person's will to resist and become docile, while still retaining their consciousness more or less. Or at least, the response of that npc seemed to suggest that.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

"Tempered"

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Maybe "Tempered" is the term the five races generically use while the actual beastmen races have their own word for it. As mentioned in earlier posts, every beast clan except for Garuda has used a different term for their Primal enthralling their associated beastmen followers/kidnapped slaves. (the latter in the case of Ifrit)

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

If this npc really was tempered, the fact he actually comprehended his situation and actually knew what had happened to him, seems to blow away completely the idea that tempered lose their 'free will' - in actual fact, it seems more accurate that tempering removes a person's will to resist and become docile, while still retaining their consciousness more or less. Or at least, the response of that npc seemed to suggest that.

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That or in 2010, the NPC meant the "strengthened with heat" definition of the word and it coincidentally would later carry the "moderate/control" definition for other primals. It's so hard to tell with an ambiguous phrase like that. In the unreleased Titan quest I mentioned earlier, one of the "blessed" Company of Heroes members goes straight from "From dust you came and to dust you shall return!" to "Friend... Father... Bestow upon us your blessing benevolent Lord of Crags!" (translations inexact), so I wouldn't as quick to say they weren't rendered mindlessly enthralled in 1.0, too. Though, part of the quest did say that being claimed by a primal isn't a static effect and some were more dangerous than others.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

Maybe "Tempered" is the term the five races generically use while the actual beastmen races have their own word for it.

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This would be an interesting way to go about it, though everyone (including the journal and system text) using the Amalj'aa race-specific term is awkward if that's the case. Unless each race would refer to all blessings by that name... would the Sylphs call the Amalj'aa touched? Would the Sahagin say the Amalj'aa drowned in Hellfi-no, that's not right.

Yeah, no, I've still got nothing, lol.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

This would be an interesting way to go about it, though everyone (including the journal and system text) using the Amalj'aa race-specific term is awkward if that's the case. Unless each race would refer to all blessings by that name... would the Sylphs call the Amalj'aa touched? Would the Sahagin say the Amalj'aa drowned in Hellfi-no, that's not right.

Yeah, no, I've still got nothing, lol.

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I wonder if the names came about from the way the Primal tempers their new followers; Ifrit bathes them in flames (tempers), Leviathan literally drowns them (in some magical water that doesn't kill them, just changes them), Ramuh may physically touch them, and so on.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Ramuh may physically touch them, and so on.

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There's something about that image of an old man touching little sylphs...*shudders*

Personally I've been putting it down to geographical separation. Ifrit was the first primal summoned in mainland Aldenard and tempers everyone and their mongoose. Because of this he would be the first primal most Eorzeans think of, so when they think of "tempering" they think of Ifrit tempering. This would also of course spread to Vylbrand, but wouldn't gain as much traction there because the island already has experience with a primal who has been tempering people (assuming he did this the previous times he was summoned and drowning isn't recent tactic). Why use a different term when you already have one? The other primals may have specific terms for it (like touched which may just be what the Syplhs call it instead of pertaining specifically to Ramuh), but as Ifrit and Leviathan are the most prolific temperers their terms would be the most used.

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Originally Posted by finiteHP

This would also of course spread to Vylbrand, but wouldn't gain as much traction there because the island already has experience with a primal who has been tempering people (assuming he did this the previous times he was summoned and drowning isn't recent tactic).

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This idea of geographical and chronological order makes the most sense to me in an ARR capacity, in some ways. I've been afraid to latch onto it too hard because it falls back on making assumptions about what in 1.0 is still considered canon. Titan and Leviathan were first summoned around the same time and we never learned how Titan's tempering was referred to. Even the term "Drowned" didn't show up until ARR - in 1.0 they were just despicable pirates who'd abandoned their kin to "take up the Sahagin god." After Ifrit tempers some people, one Small Talk NPC inside an instance simply muses "I've heard rumors the beast tribes brainwash people - maybe that's what the Serpent Ravers are!" and left it at just "brainwashing."

Methinks I may need to go back to the Japanese transcripts of unreleased quests I got from some interblogz forever ago and attempt a more dutiful translation.

You think SE would pull the threads down if I tried to crowdsource some translations via Google Docs? lol

Hmmm.... Depends... I don't think they'd do it as long as it's 1.) 1.0 Material and 2.) never includes unreleased 2.0 Material or music, and is not making anything available for download in some way.

Short version, as long as it's not spoilers or costing them money, I don't think they'll mind. Especially if it's the lore community who is just super involved in figuring out the story based on what's presented.

Um, I thought the first primal summoned was the unknown on that stopped the first Garlamund invasion force to the north of Ala Mhigo? Or did that one never 'temper' anyone?

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Originally Posted by Lusavari

Short version, as long as it's not spoilers or costing them money, I don't think they'll mind.

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Nah, it'd just be a two-column spreadsheet with the original Japanese text on one side and an "insert your best translation here" column opposite.

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Originally Posted by Grayve

Um, I thought the first primal summoned was the unknown on that stopped the first Garlamund invasion force to the north of Ala Mhigo? Or did that one never 'temper' anyone?

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It's hard to use that incident as evidence for anything in either direction because we know nothing about it. Forget whether or not it tempered anything, we don't even know who or what it was. The wording they used is incredibly ambiguous and doesn't fit in with the surrounding lore. For instance, we know the primal was sighted after the taking of Ala Mhigo, but not whether it was before the Battle of Silvertear Skies. The wording they use, "shortly after," implies the former, yet the entire reason Gaius was ordered to take Silvertear in the first place (according to the information I was given to assist in building the White Raven summary) was to prevent the beast tribes from learning to harness the aether there to summon primals, as the Empire feared it would only embolden the conquered nations of of the East to start summoning their own primals in rebellion once again and then Garlemald would be facing two continents' worth of unkillable demigods. You see where that's super confusing? Silvertear Skies was five years after Ala Mhigo - not "shortly" later by any means - yet anything before that likely wasn't the work of the beast tribes, as the culmination of that battle is what broke the seal that seems to have begun this whole Beast Tribe / Ascian / Primal thing in Eorzea the first place.

Leviathan, Titan, Ifrit, and Garuda are all shortly after the Battle of Silvertear skies, Shiva's tribe isn't even here yet, Odin wasn't broken out of his crystal until the Calamity, and Bahamut was still in space. This leads some people to guess Ramuh, as the Empire would have been advancing from Ala Mhigo to march on Gridania through the Black Shroud, right into Sylph territory ... yet we have no evidence of Paragon activity pre-1562, there were no tempered Sylphs in 1.0, conversations with them at that time included vows they'd never summon him, and in ARR, you seem to be told that they only summoned him once - seemingly in response to the raising of Castrum Oriens - and those who were involved were immediately tempered and forced them out of the Sylphlands (where they were still living and just fine in 1.0 before the Empire broke in at the end, there).

SE has never revisited this, and when I asked about it specifically to try to clear it up, I was told was, "Please look forward to it."

Soooo... please look forward to it? ><