The reason Summoner needs revamp threads keep popping up

They keep popping up, because people don't like to consolidate their ideas for whatever reason.


I'm one of those people who would also like to see summoner changed. No, it's not about Final Fantasy 4 or 11, and it's not trying to be oblivious to the "completeness" of the Final Fantasy 14 summoner. It's a matter of balance for the long term.

For example, what are we going to do if they introduce new Egi that are still underwhelming due to the heavy use of Contagion? What are we going to do if the new Egi have something even more overbearing than Contagion? The job, at the moment, is mechanically sound, but they need to better balance the Egi so that we're not just DoTs with a one-trick-Egi-pony. If a summoner has 4 or 5 Egi in their arsenal, there should be incentive to use all of them, and the way the Egi are designed, I don't see that happening when we have more to choose from in the future.

If anyone is looking for a constructive conversation that doesn't boil down to the following:
A: "I want summoner changed to (insert proposterous idea here)."
B: "Summoner is perfect the way it is. Get over it or find another game."

I implore you, try to keep it all in one place　↓

(Un)Official Arcanist/Summmoner Feedback Thread (58 pages)
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...eedback-Thread

召喚士に関するフィードバックを書くスレ (23 pages)
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...82%B9%E3%83%AC

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

They keep popping up, because people don't like to consolidate their ideas for whatever reason.

I'm one of those people who would also like to see summoner changed. No, it's not about Final Fantasy 4 or 11, and it's not trying to be oblivious to the "completeness" of the Final Fantasy 14 summoner. It's a matter of balance for the long term.

For example, what are we going to do if they introduce new Egi that are still underwhelming due to the heavy use of Contagion? What are we going to do if the new Egi have something even more overbearing than Contagion? The job, at the moment, is mechanically sound, but they need to better balance the Egi so that we're not just DoTs with a one-trick-Egi-pony. If a summoner has 4 or 5 Egi in their arsenal, there should be incentive to use all of them, and the way the Egi are designed, I don't see that happening when we have more to choose from in the future.

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Re-tooling Egi's is one thing, and something I certainly sympathize with. But that's not really a rework of the Summoner as a class.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

For example, what are we going to do if they introduce new Egi that are still underwhelming due to the heavy use of Contagion?

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I actually use all three of my egis pretty regularly. Titan for solo, Garuda for Primals/Coil, Ifrit for most dungeons (exception of two or three).

Contagion is overrated.

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Originally Posted by MercuryD

The reason why posts such as those keep popping up lies only in that players are unable to accept the job, which is powerful in its own right, is complete. People have commented on the lore reasons for all that you have stated ad nauseum. In fact, much of the lore you are stating has little to no empirical (in-game) evidence. I.e., egi require more aether than a primal.

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If the game is based on some form of reality then it still requires a massive amount of energy to change the nature of something. Changing the Primals original form into the Egis is equivalent to turning lead into gold they both require a vast amount of Energy. Keeping the Primal in its original form would cost less Aetheric Energy then creating the Egi because that involves ripping apart the Primals being.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

I actually use all three of my egis pretty regularly. Titan for solo, Garuda for Primals/Coil, Ifrit for most dungeons (exception of two or three).

Contagion is overrated.

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^ this

i use all three egis too, titan for solo, and garuda and ifrit depending on the fight.

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Originally Posted by Bombast

The reason these threads come up is because you can't accept that this is FF14, not FF4 or FF11. Summoners are different, and despite what you think, they work.

SE is not going to do a major over haul (And yes, to make it what you want, it would have to be a MASSIVE over haul) of a class because you don't think it feels right. Because for every person who thinks it doesn't feel right, there are a thousand people who are going to blow their lids when they log in one day and find that their class, the one they spent months gearing up and practicing on, is now gone, replaced by some monster they didn't sign up for and don't understand.

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Most players would be happy with my suggestions and their would be quite a few players that switched from Summoner's to Black Mage because they didn't feel like a Summoner come back.

I really like the feel of the job now.

The only thing I'd be okay with is an overall buff to egis and a nerf to the actual SMN to compensate. That way, those who want more "powerful" feeling summoned creatures have that, while SMNs who enjoy the job as is are still ultimately playing the same way as they did before.

Also, I don't think you understand the lore correctly.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

If the game is based on some form of reality then it still requires a massive amount of energy to change the nature of something. Changing the Primals original form into the Egis is equivalent to turning lead into gold they both require a vast amount of Energy.

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Not to state the obvious but this is Fantasy, not Reality. As such, within the context of our world (Eorzea), that theory cannot hold too much weight, if any at all. Also your theory of lead to gold is preposterous. Please, rewatch the cutscenes of the job quests. It explicitly states that

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Originally Posted by Ymhitra

In order to manifest these obedient incarnations of the beastmen's savage deities, one must first defeat a primal and capture its aetheric essence.

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The keyword is capture.

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Originally Posted by Ymhitra

Now, you must focus. Visualize the aether flowing through you, a vibrant current of energy transforming into living fire. Hold this image in your mind, and the raging heat of your life force shall spawn an egi wreathed in flames!

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This COULD sounds as if you use ambient aether but...

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Originally Posted by Ymhitra

Instead of fire, however, you will be concentrating on shifting your aetheric balance towards the spectrum of earth. Once you have achieved the required state of earthen affinity, the primal's captured essence will tumble forth and coalesce into the stony form of Titan-Egi.

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Here she states explicitly that you call the captured essence of the primal.

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Originally Posted by Ymhitra

I sense Garuda's restless essence railing within the confines of your aetheric channels. It is time we granted it release with the Austerities of Wind.

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"Within the confines of your aetheric channels."
Captured, again, being the operative term.

So, in closing, summoning consists of a few steps:

1) Defeat the primal and take its essence into yourself. (We assume this occurs by all who defeat a primal and survive, not just summoners.)
2) Find a place in which the aetheric balance is strongly shifted to support that primal, i.e., Sagolii desert for Ifrit.
3) While in that place, shift your personal aetheric essence to match that element and call the egi out.
4) The egi will be wild, having the qualities of the primal it was torn from. Defeat it.
5) After defeating it, you will have access to the egi. From here on you can do steps 1 and 3 in order to summon the Egi for your use.

Oh look, Akiza is posting her weekly SMN rant... :B

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Most players would be happy with my suggestions and their would be quite a few players that switched from Summoner's to Black Mage because they didn't feel like a Summoner come back.

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To play devil's advocate here, source? Barely anyone agrees with you on the forums so how can you claim 'most players'.
Further, changing it now would upset players who like the Summoner as is.