Proposed changes to Monk's "Fist" passives

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

Unless Pugilist gets a Tank alternative in the future - but that's not now, and the fact is, that skill exists in the Here And Now.

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They have to design classes and jobs now with the future in mind, otherwise they would have to totally revamp every class and job whenever new ones come out. As for Fists of Earth and Wind, again these are pugilist abilities, if you didn't have fists of fire would you just not turn one of these on, no you would still have one up. I've seen plenty of monks just learning Titan go in Fists of wind to make dodging a bit easier, or Earth full time so they take less damage when they don't dodge, but it still remains that fire is your main one, because monks are dps, they need to keep as much up time on their dps stance as possible, and again, it is one of the benefits of monk over pugilist, pugilists don't have access to it. Just because you don't use every ability all the time, doesn't make it useless and need to be replaced. Another thing they have to consider is balance with other classes/jobs and utility, monk already has very high dps, they get an off GCD stun, a ranged stun, aoe silence, they can remove enemy buffs, they can cross class invigorate for TP, giving them TP regen on fists of wind would mean they could basically do anything without ever having to worry about TP, and right now if you use invigorate before your TP hits 0, to start the cooldown rolling, you can go single target for a very long time, aoe however is different, you burn TP, but that is how it is on all classes, you have to learn to manage your resources to maximize your dps with aoe vs. single target, otherwise everyone would just run through aoeing everything without a second thought and we would have early WoW frost mages all over again.

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

As for Fists of Earth and Wind, again these are pugilist abilities, if you didn't have fists of fire would you just not turn one of these on, no you would still have one up.

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What you are saying there straight up is "Once you get Fists of Fire, you stop using them". This means the ability is obsoleted to them in practice, which means it is a poor ability. There is a difference between Situational - such as One-Ilm Punch, Feint, Sword Oath, etc. - and "In practice you'll never use this because it actively prevents something you actually will use" like Fists of Fire.

As for the part where you argue "but only Monks get Fire", nobody sticks around in just Pugilist for very long after hitting level 30. There is no alternate class out yet - and won't be until at least 3.0, which is an incredibly long length of time to leave borderline-useless skills on a kit. At that time, could Fists of Earth become fine? Yes, maybe it could. That doesn't account for Wind though.

I'm not even aruging whether or not the changes posed by the OP are actually good or not. I just disagree heavily with the sentiment "yeah fire fists outclasses the others but that's okay". Because that shouldn't happen. There's very, very few skills which are just straight up obsoleted by others learned later in XIV.

I get what's being said regarding the PUG/MNK differences. This is the reason I suggested traits. This isn't me trying to tell anybody what to do with the game. It is simply an idea I would like to see in one way or another. My thought process behind this was if BLM can put out such high dps with little to no resource depletion, why shouldn't Monk; arguably the hardest dps role in the game, get the same sort of freedom? A TP regeneration skill would give MNK the opportunity to focus on putting out an immense amount of damage without fear of slowing everything while TP regenerates at a very slow rate, while focusing properly on dodging and staying alive. If any of these skill traits were ever to be put into use, some other abilities would have to take a hit. That much is certain. BUT, this would give utility to skill speed builds, rendering it finally useful.

Because their DPS is still lower than yours in non AoE situations to compensate the lack of resource depletion.

Just like Bard is lowest to offset the easy 'rotation', unhindered mobility and decent utility.

Melee have insane DPS output, but you have to work for it.