Hardcore MMORPG's would be a massive failure if it was released in today's MMORPG era

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Originally Posted by Mattia

No evidence to back up your claims, and you act like there is only one generation that plays MMO's....

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There's plenty of evidence. In the age of texting, instant gratification dlc/pay to win, f2p games, people are not going to wait 30 minutes on a ferry in a game. Or 15 minutes for an airship to go from one nation to another. No one is going to wait hours and hours for a party invite, just to party for an hour. Obviously I'm using examples from FFXI, but the point remains. People love their 15 round of Call of Duty, or the ability to just log on, duty finder / solo content, and move on. Myself? I miss the good ol days, but I was also a teenager. Now I'm married, job, kids, don't have that kind of time anymore. Camping an HNM for 12 hours just isn't going to happen these days.

You are making good quality threads.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rdcore-players


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-of-Promathia


If a game is good. then it well do well. Didn't Darksouls already prove it?

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Originally Posted by Kluya15

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Maybe people that want instant gratification shouldn't play an MMORPG? Role playing game to me means more immersion which it seems alot of newer players really don't care about today. They just want the brass ring at the end and totally forget about the ride to get there. I prefer the ride. :)

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Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

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Yeah, the lack of interestest in Pantheon was clear. I mean, any game can get easily funds enought to be made if it ask for them, shows almost nothing, and speak about being released in more than 3 years.


Oh, wait.... Maybe not?



More on topic: An old style mmorpg woud have less subscriptions than FF XIV have today. That's true, but that doesn't mean that they woud not be enought to make profit. You can make a wow clone mmo and "try to get as much of the mmo market as you can". And maybe have million of suscribers for some months and how knows later. With an old style MMORPG you woud probably never hit 1 million users. But I'm sure that if it's well done you can get enought users and they will be more reliable to the long term.




I mean... I'm sure that FF XIV is dropping in suscribers. I'm still here, but to be honest I'm note sure how much time more will I stay. A lot of people are here only because there's not any other mmo release. After ESO and Wildstar release, I'm sure a lot of people will drop. I know some people that will for sure, they are already decided. And on any MMO release, that risk will be there.

An old style hardcore MMORPG will probably have less people but more time (if they do things right. Vanguard didn't :D) and their users less tempted with other releases.

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Originally Posted by Kluya15

There's plenty of evidence. In the age of texting, instant gratification dlc/pay to win, f2p games, people are not going to wait 30 minutes on a ferry in a game. Or 15 minutes for an airship to go from one nation to another. No one is going to wait hours and hours for a party invite, just to party for an hour. Obviously I'm using examples from FFXI, but the point remains. People love their 15 round of Call of Duty, or the ability to just log on, duty finder / solo content, and move on. Myself? I miss the good ol days, but I was also a teenager. Now I'm married, job, kids, don't have that kind of time anymore. Camping an HNM for 12 hours just isn't going to happen these days.

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What you are claiming is based on conformation bias. You have a busy adult life and you're surrounded by quick casual games. This does not mean everyone is. We had quick arena shooters and flash games in the early 00's. That didn't kill off core MMOs then. What killed them was everyone going for the biggest piece of pie WoW managed to drum up and abandoning the practices of the old core MMOs for both good and bad. You don't see many core MMO players anymore because they don't really have a game to play and feel welcome.

Now, I'm not saying we should have arbitrary waiting times, but it would be nice to have some things that made the world feel more deep and alive. Things that do require commitment, quiet open areas, and moments of peace where you can soak up the environment. Instead we get this hype about getting to endgame as soon as possible to run the same content over and over, so you can get the next weapon, do the next thing, and so on till the next content patch where the process repeats itself.

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Originally Posted by Theonekitten

Maybe people that want instant gratification shouldn't play an MMORPG? Role playing game to me means more immersion which it seems alot of newer players really don't care about today. They just want the brass ring at the end and totally forget about the ride to get there. I prefer the ride. :)

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Don't push your preferences on the MMORPG genre and don't diss people for it.
You don't expect permadeath on Hello Kitty Online, do you ? Yet it is a MMORPG.

I wonder how much people is needed for a MMORPG not to fancy but not too shabby to make money, so we can start to theorize if a hardcore MMORPG is still doable.
The game industry don't believe in it but I remember that someone tried to pitch one on Kickstarter. Seems like the players don't believe in it either :(

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Things that do require commitment, quiet open areas, and moments of peace where you can soak up the environment. Instead we get this hype about getting to endgame as soon as possible to run the same content over and over, so you can get the next weapon, do the next thing, and so on till the next content patch where the process repeats itself.

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easy to say, hard to implement. most people can only soak up the environment for so long before it becomes a grind that feels like a second job.

Well one thing is for sure though. If FFXIV became hard, then the population would dwindle or maybe the target audience would just change and population will still be respectable.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...pectations-why

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Originally Posted by Doo

You are making good quality threads.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rdcore-players


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-of-Promathia


If a game is good. then it well do well. Didn't Dark Souls already prove it?

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Yeah gonna go right ahead and bold this and quote it for OP.

Dark Souls isn't an MMO.