Gridanian Religion vs Reality: How much do the Hearers really hear?

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

I haven't levelled BTN yet so I wouldn't know, but that blatantly contradicts all previous information stated about the Ixal, ......

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Well what we know is the Gridanian point of view of what happened. For all we know, they might be the ones that caused the problem. But they since have sole ownership of what the elementals say. We will never know.

Can't really blame whatever faction in the Shrouds of not giving a damn about Gridanian laws. Everything we see seems to only benefit themselves.

It's not really a religion.
A religion is about believing. But the gridanians don't believe that elementals exist, they know that they exist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA_KJozoIsA

1.0 WHM story: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rSoP...tailpage#t=195

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

1.0 showed in particular what happens to those who earn the ire of the elementals - one hapless boy who like you didn't believe they existed, set a Hedgetree on fire, which caused the elemental within to become so violent, it not only turned the boy into a living statue, but also sent a massive energy blast that knocked the LNCs ARCs and CNJs who had arrived too late to stop him off their feet. They ended up having no choice but to destroy the elemental, an act that was ultimately forgiven by the other elementals, but still carried a tragic price.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_64D7gpUYI

About the Ixal:

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Some 550 years in the past, the Ixal chose the forest of Tinolqa* as their homeland. The stories say they built their nests in its trees, and, spreading their wings to the wind, were able to soar among the branches. Even in this ancient time, the Ixal, feeling kinship with the creatures of the sky, revered Garuda as the Empress of Birds. During this age of prosperity the feathered beastmen flourished and multiplied, overflowing the borders of their territory. Their unchecked growth, however, angered the elementals, and the Ixal were cast out of the forest. The exiled birdmen, in search of a new place to roost, migrated en masse to the great canyon known as Xelphatol.

But the trials of the Ixal did not end with the loss of their home. Inexplicably, the young that hatched in the land of Xelphatol were born without certain feathers they needed to catch the wind. As generations came and went, the Ixal lost their ability to fly completely. All that remained to them was an insatiable hunger for the sky. The birdmen's invention of the dirigible 150 years ago is most like the culmination of this tragic history and their undiminished yearning to fly.


* The Twelveswood. The word “Tinolqa” means “Blessed Forest” in Ixali.

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http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...ews/num06.html

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Originally Posted by Felis

It's not really a religion.
A religion is about believing. But the gridanians don't just believe that elementals exist, they know that they exist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBWtf...ilpage#t=11426

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We also know Ifrit and Garuda exist and they very definitely have religious followings.

ETA: Thanks for the Lodestone link, the old ones are super-hard to track down.

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Originally Posted by HumsterMKX

*hands FJerome a darksteel foil hat*

I strongly believe we might be facing a "Elemental indoctrinated" individual.

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:p Nah, I'm not forestborn myself either, but after spending so much time in Gridania even before the Calamity, I began to understand why the nation of the Twelveswood was like that. And I saw first hand how the forest is a living, thinking organism, that doesn't tolerate insolence.

Incidentally it was stated that elementals are not only found in the trees of the Twelveswood, but in all creation - even rocks, sand, the air. Everything has an elemental within it. For some reason though they're more potent and active in the Black Shroud than anywhere else in Eorzea - hence why the CNJ's Guild is based there, because that very school of magic requires the elementals to even function (borrowing aether from the environment and all that), so it would make sense to base it at the nexus of elemental activity in Eorzea.

FJerome actually makes a pretty valid point in regards to poaching. If hunting animals not approved by the elementals is likely to provoke the greenwrath, and Gridania has a monopoly on the hearers, why don't we see a significantly higher incident rate of greenwrath among the poachers? I mean, we're to believe that the elementals are so easily vexed that the God's Quiver and Wood Wailers both resort to wearing masks in the line of duty to avoid the greenwrath, yet unmasked illegal poachers walk about with impunity?

Tell me, Viridiana, have you seen a single actual Elemental in the Shroud these days?

They only appeared during one brief moment, the second-to-last Conjurer quest (and in aid of the party no less). They are weak now, and rely on the people of Gridania to do their will. One could say that now they do the Elemental's bidding out of respect than fear.

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Originally Posted by Skies

............ They are weak now, and rely on the people of Gridania to do their will............ .

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Sole right to Hearers, check

Population indoctrinated since birth about the Green Wrath, check

Elementals too weak now to do stuff, check

Sounds like a plan.

A Plan to dominate and bend ppl's will to yours!

Gridania is nothing more then Ishgard now, HELL, they even have the Sole rights for extensive greenery now.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

:p Nah, I'm not forestborn myself either, but after spending so much time in Gridania even before the Calamity, I began to understand why the nation of the Twelveswood was like that. And I saw first hand how the forest is a living, thinking organism, that doesn't tolerate insolence.


Incidentally it was stated that elementals are not only found in the trees of the Twelveswood, but in all creation - even rocks, sand, the air. Everything has an elemental within it. For some reason though they're more potent and active in the Black Shroud than anywhere else in Eorzea - hence why the CNJ's Guild is based there, because that very school of magic requires the elementals to even function (borrowing aether from the environment and all that), so it would make sense to base it at the nexus of elemental activity in Eorzea.

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The Twelveswood is also the highest concentration of life in Eorzea, which is probably why it isn't coincidental that the Elementals have their strongest presence there. The Elementals are essentially aether given intelligence, and because aether is the lifeblood of the planet and its inhabitants, the Elementals are at its core in understanding the changes being done and how they will affect all life.

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Originally Posted by FJerome

We also know Ifrit and Garuda exist and they very definitely have religious followings.

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I think the difference here is that the Gridanians don't worship the Elementals, they simply do their bidding out of both respect and fear. The way of life in the forest is, for the most part, peaceful, and following a few extra rules sounds like a good price to pay for such peace. Ifrit and Garuda consider themselves gods, and demand to be treated as such, thus why their followers are more of a "religious" fanaticism.

The elementals power is on the wane, but they are still a danger. It is the the responsibility of the seedseers to communicate and to quell their rage.

Nature has always been neutral, and once angry they'll attack anybody even those helping them. This might be why poachers get off Scott free (kinda). Seed seer know elemental will kill everything.

Also gridanians give as much as they take from the forest. Planting trees in place pf those they cut. Protecting endangered species, etc

The fact that seedseers have to investigate and then track down an elemental before it goes crazy. That's what I got with the cnj/whm quests

. . . I probably should have gone with that alternate thread title. I really just want to discuss what the non-Gridanian Keepers-of-the-Moon and Duskwrights think of all this and we keep wheeling around to the Gridanian POV.

We could really do more from either camp in general, really, the only real exposure I can think of are the Archer and Lancer quests-lines and those archaeologists studying Gelmorra.

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Originally Posted by Velox

I think the difference here is that the Gridanians don't worship the Elementals, they simply do their bidding out of both respect and fear. The way of life in the forest is, for the most part, peaceful, and following a few extra rules sounds like a good price to pay for such peace. Ifrit and Garuda consider themselves gods, and demand to be treated as such, thus why their followers are more of a "religious" fanaticism.

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"Nevertheless, I pray to both the Matron and the elementals"

Gridania is nothing like the fanatical horror-show that Ishgard is (though it may have been a lot worse back in the days the Seed Seers enjoyed living it up at Haukke Manor and throwing people into Toto-Rak) but there's definitely a religious aspect to their relationship with the elementals.