[WHM] Garuda Extreme Threat Issues

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

Yes I agree to the Stoneskin thing, but from personal experience I always keep Regen on both the tanks along with SS so when SS drops, they get a small buffer of health just incase another attack is coming, And for sisters I usually always have Medica 2 on everybody (except the very first sisters). Tanks have never had to fight me for hate, they grab the sisters quickly and hold them perfectly. At most all I see them use is their throwing skills with +attack abilities on them. Unless people are hitting Tornadoes and taking unnecessary damage, I never steal hate from the tanks.

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Having Medica II and Regen up on the tanks is fine, but as mentioned above, if they are only pulling with Shield Lob/Tomahawk, they will lose enmity very quickly. They need a BB/RoH combo if they want to have regen/medica2 up and still keep enmity.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Seems like a tank issue. They should be getting RoH or Butchers ready for the sisters which will secure hate. If you are having to heal to the point of pulling hate past that point then they are taking too much damage and not avoiding enough.

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I have to agree with this. The tanks in my fc have no problem holding hate, even if I regen both ASAP when the sisters come down. The only time there is ever an issue is if a dps pulls hate, then sometimes it will come to me next if the tank isn't able to get it back fast enough.

Remind your tanks they can build their combo on garuda while she is invulnerable to have butcher/halone ready for sister spawns.

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Originally Posted by Tears-of-Death

Remind your tanks they can build their combo on garuda while she is invulnerable to have butcher/halone ready for sister spawns.

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This. Also as WHM save Shroud of Saints for all clone phases and stoneskin tanks before clone phases. At start of clone phase I put SoS up, then Eye my tank (off tank), then divine seal regen both tanks. No hate issues ever.

Joining the choir here. I hate to say "it's a tank problem", but based on your description, it's a tank problem.

Consider: You're in the five-way tornado phase, MT has Garuda/Suparna, you get Suparna threat. You Shroud, Suparna goes away.. then comes back a short while later.

That reads like an AOE threat generation issue. The tank is failing to Flash or to occasionally do something to the target that isn't Garuda. (PLDs get Circle, WARs get Overpower, both classes can target-switch to ensure threat remains established.) An alternate problem would be if your tank is forgetting to use Shield Oath or Defiance between attempts; extra threat gen is needed to hold AOE... but that's an easy one to notice.

My only advice as a heal would be to tone down Regen/Med2 during Sister pops, but it sounds like you're already there. The tanks can't have you not-heal and expect to survive. And like the other WHMs here, I Regen/Med2 a-plenty without threat issues.

As a tank I use flash once on the add I am responsible for once they appear on my threat list (usually Suprana, since we usually do the kill Suprana first method and I am the MT). This establishes solid initial aggro, since there seems to be a delay in the threat generated by flash is established. As I move in place I use 1 shield lob, then CoS and flash again. Once in place I start a RoH rotation while starting my midigation. I havent lost aggro to a healer or a dps using this rotation on adds since the shield oath enimity buff. As a warrior I do practically the same thing except I use BS instead of CoS.

Honestly it sounds like something is up with your tanks.

First...If you are using 2 ways pull, e.g.
MT: Garuda + Suprana
OT: Chidara

All you have to heal should be only MT & OT.

Garuda's Friction always target 1 healer. So you should stay away from each other as well as tell range dps to do so.

Now let's move on.

If you are killing Chidara first, Garuda & Suprana will swap place (after Chidara's HP ~50%), thus resulting in swapping enmity between them.

If you are saying that you are aggroed by suprana. Make sure to notice whether it is before or after swap, so you'll know what went wrong.

IF before swap, then your tank doesn't make enough aggro on suprana.

IF after swap, it means you overaggro old garuda in vortex phase. This means either
1. your whole party taking too much and unnecessary damage up to that point (spread out in vortex after plumes are dead to avoid friction for whole party), or
2. you are overhealing too much (usually AoE heal after ministrel and reckoning)
3. your tank focus on suprana (before swap) too much.

I use Shroud of Saints when sisters first pop (pre-tornado phase) and then every time it is up after that.

In tornado phase, when the sisters are summoned the whole party should already be at full health and stoneskin on both tanks. So no regens should be active and no healing should be necessary. Not until the tanks have pulled their mobs to their assigned spots and have hate well established should you need to cast your first cure of this phase. Just refresh stoneskin once on the MT while you wait and then start in with regens and the healing once frictions start.

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Originally Posted by Jeykama

For tanks, it is possible to do a Fast/Skull at the very end of Mistral Shriek, Savage/Heavy when Garuda respawns, and have Halone/BB up for the sister to have gg threat for that phase, but as I said the timing is very strict and 1-2 seconds off will lose the combo.

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^It is good for your tanks to do this if they don't already.

It's your tanks :3

I can usually count to 5 after they spawn and be able to cure II, divine seal regen on both tanks, and heal the main tank without pulling agro.
Your tank should be tanking Suparna too, not just pulling initial hate and that's it.

Thanks for all the feedback guys, we went in last night after banging our heads against the wall a bit in twintania and one shot it, I just completely avoided medica II and only regened after the sisters were established hate, and we swapped which tank was on which add with our raid leader hammering into their head about the prepping their combo. I didn't get hate once. spiny plume was being a bit stupid, we had previously had me holding it as well so I could save shroud for then. So a combination of all that got it done.