What would make Fates better?

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

As far as I know, the only real chain FATE we have is Svara. I realise it might not be possible to do dynamic map changes, but at least having FATE chains with success/fail branches would make things more interesting, rather than "Oh look, FATE popped. Ok, done. Let's go to the other one on the other side of the map now. Oh, it failed. Oh well, next."

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There are actually at least three chain FATEs aside from Svara, which is the least interesting. The Attack on Highbridge is accessed much earlier(I think around 25-ish), and has two potential final stages, depending on whether you succeeded or failed in Act 1/2/3. Then there's the Redbelly Hive, in South Shroud, which was, at least in 2.0, one of the saddest cases, because the most interesting result of the chain was almost never seen because people were too busy zerging it(if you fail at Part 2, a new third act comes around, with a boss who summons a giant turtle in addition to all his Redbelly buddies). The Redbelly Hive's especially cool because success or failure decides what NPC's will be located there until the next time it pops(it can be either the Redbellies, or the Woodwailers). The last of my three is the Corpse Brigade FATEs in Southern Thanalan. This is more or less a standard FATE, but it's still pretty cool, IMO, especially since it's almost always left alone by the playerbase(great place to get together with friends and actually enjoy some open world content).

Oh, and there's the worms in Southern Thanalan, over by the Forgotten Spring. That's a two-part FATE as well, but...ehhhhhhhh.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

If GW2 did anything right, it was dynamic events. For those who aren't familiar with dynamic events, these were essentially FATEs spread out across the map with some being stand-alone events but most being chain events. Success or failure of these events can change the map by making certain places or NPCs (in)accessible. Example: The Pact is assaulting the Orrian homeland. First event is to escort a camp leader to the site. If successful, second event is to protect the campsite until defences are built. If successful, third event is to escort the second camp leader to the second base. Repeat. Later, the second base will fall under attack (as another DE). If successful, continue as normal. If fail, the NPCs retreat back to the first base and the first base falls under attack.

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Shoot! You posted while I was updating! XD
Glad you came out with the same point. That's exactly what FATEs should be like!

Remove "tagging" - It does nothing but promote a "MINE! MINE! MINE!" attitude. Instead, make it based on actual participation, % of damage/healing...SOMETHING else.

Form parties automatically within the radius of a FATE. When one party is filled, another will start.

Decrease the amount of FATES per zone, but increase the impact and scale of the FATES to compensate.

Last, but not least: Have meaningful rewards.

That's my input.

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Originally Posted by FMElan

There are actually at least three chain FATEs aside from Svara, which is the least interesting. The Attack on Highbridge is accessed much earlier(I think around 25-ish), and has two potential final stages, depending on whether you succeeded or failed in Act 1/2/3. Then there's the Redbelly Hive, in South Shroud, which was, at least in 2.0, one of the saddest cases, because the most interesting result of the chain was almost never seen because people were too busy zerging it(if you fail at Part 2, a new third act comes around, with a boss who summons a giant turtle in addition to all his Redbelly buddies). The Redbelly Hive's especially cool because success or failure decides what NPC's will be located there until the next time it pops(it can be either the Redbellies, or the Woodwailers).

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Did not know about these so thank you for sharing. ^^

But we need exactly more FATEs like these. They need to be in the majority rather than in the minority. As for zerging, it's inevitable as it happens even in GW2, but I think they attempted to fix it by scaling mobs by the number of people who participated in it previously? I thought I heard something like that.

The players follow the red dot on the map like a herd of cats running after a laser pointer. If I wanted a game like that I would play Defiance. SE ruined Fates by allowing a system to be put into place to be abused by players. The player base ruined Fates by running them 24/7 in mass hordes. SE again ruined Fates, by seeing this data, and putting in even more Fates in quests and dailies. As for doing other Fates in the area to make the quest one pop up, part of the problem is that while you are off clearing off the other Fates, the one you need can pop and the mass group sitting there waiting can burn it down in under a minute. Meanwhile you are racing back hoping to get a hit or two in before the Fate is over. And if it is a Fate that requires Gold, you are screwed.


It seems that the only thing that can improve Fates, is not Fates themselves, but to introduce other things to the game, or like the 2.1 update, make other options worthwhile. Fates do not need better rewards, or more branches that can happen, because the other branches will never happen (Redbranch Hive) as long as the mass zerg is there running from one red dot to another.

I think it would be fun if there were a wider variety of FATEs. For example, if certain FATEs only spawned for during certain weather.

I think it would also be fun if there were more incentives to do them, other than minions and exp. Like if mobs had a chance to dropped special items or mats (only available in FATEs). Might make things a bit more interesting. It would work for potential gathering FATEs too.

In any case, there really needs to be a better reason to do FATEs other than the exp. I personally like the little intro story that goes a long with it, but I know not everyone finds that kind of thing interesting. A FATE journal, to keep track of the ones you've participated in, would be interesting too.

Remember the Conquest system from XI?
Apply it to fates.
Payers complete fates for their GC in order to curry favor in that region. Winning the region awards buffs / bonuses / discounts / exclusive vendor items / etc. in the GC's home city for that region. However, this idea would require a decent amount of content development time to implement...

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Originally Posted by Xerich

Remove "tagging" - It does nothing but promote a "MINE! MINE! MINE!" attitude. Instead, make it based on actual participation, % of damage/healing...SOMETHING else.

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It actually is. FATE participation, outside of parties, is based on the amount of damage dealt or enmity generated(through healing or tanking). For some reason, parties get a free pass so long as they participate a little, which is something that needs to be looked at, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Xerich

Last, but not least: Have meaningful rewards.

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The problem with this is that those rewards become less and less meaningful as people continue running the content. When you get a minion, or a mount, or barding or even equipment from the first runs, it's awesome. But, after a few days, you'll see those prizes end up on the marketplace...and after a few more days, they'll be getting sold for 20 gil a piece, if not less. Yes, you can make them unique/untradeable, but the more people that know about the rewards, the more will camp for that FATE specifically, and the less and less meaningful the rewards get.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Did not know about these so thank you for sharing. ^^

But we need exactly more FATEs like these. They need to be in the majority rather than in the minority. As for zerging, it's inevitable as it happens even in GW2, but I think they attempted to fix it by scaling mobs by the number of people who participated in it previously? I thought I heard something like that.

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I agree, 100%. Those are the FATEs I actually enjoy doing. The Notorious Monster FATEs are in second place, so long as they're interesting/challenging enough, like It's Not Lupus, The Eyes Have It, and Go, Go, Gorgimera. Svara, too, to an extent.

...But at the same time, those FATEs also annoy me to no end, because it's always the worst tank that gets there first and gets half the field killed because he doesn't understand how to position the enemy....

And as to the mobs scaling, that's actually a change to 2.1. A change we never see because...nobody's doing FATEs anymore. :-p

I actually don't mind fates. I don't like the fact that fates are now required to now complete quests and progress. I quest with friends and while we are going along, its like "Oh look, there a fate, wanna try it" not sitting in one spot for hours on end waiting for one fate to pop just so i get to run to another spot and wait just as long for that one to pop

*edit again*

Also the more people that have done them, the harder it will be for the newer people to get through them when they need them. I can't begin to count the number of times i have seen shout begging for anyone to come help with one so they can beat it

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Originally Posted by FMElan

It actually is. FATE participation, outside of parties, is based on the amount of damage dealt or enmity generated(through healing or tanking). For some reason, parties get a free pass so long as they participate a little, which is something that needs to be looked at, IMO.

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Yes, that's what I was trying to say originally I think. It just needs to be looked at and adjusted.

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Originally Posted by FMElan

The problem with this is...[snip]

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I think the rewards would need to be very well thought out and executed in order to keep it fresh. I don't know, maybe offer things like Fantasia potions, or tokens (philosophy/mythology) or have PVP fates that also offer rewards? I'm just brainstorming here, but I really think there should be something of meaning. I also think that whatever it is, it should be unique/untradable.