It depends upon how you define "nigh-unrecognizable".Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamemako
LNC and PGL could both be made into tanks without *too* much mangling. Remove the positional requirements (and likely fold in the benefits as baseline effects), add some high enmity modifiers in their place, and they could be turned into tanks pretty effectively: they don't have too much in the way of DPS CDs (PGL just has Internal Release; LNC has B4B and Life Surge). MRD could be turned into a DPS without much, though its CD suite *is* a bit strong after the 2.1 buffs.
Think we'll get any Magic Tanks?
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12-21-2013, 02:47 PMKitru
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12-21-2013, 04:24 PMSylariI'd only agree with Gladiator. Conjurer has 5 offensive skills to work with. Not a great kit but enough to form the foundation of a DPS build (and the thematics behind the class' questchain just screams geomancer). You'd just need to backload offensive utility into jobskills (probably with a 'kitchen sink' stance at 30). Clumsy until it gets its entire kit, maybe, but not significantly moreso than a low level scholar.Quote:
(Then again, most of the jobs will need to be made nigh-unrecognizable from the class to second job. GLA and CNJ are great examples in that they can do nothing remotely resembling anything but what they currently do. I would not be surprised if SE simply canned second jobs entirely for the original 7 classes.)
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12-21-2013, 04:33 PMMomoOG
PLD should have been the magic tank but they failed on the MAGIC side.
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12-21-2013, 05:32 PMKitruIt wouldn't really need a stance at all. The devs would just need to give the job high INT and low MND, similar to what they did with SMN. Giving a stance doesn't really serve a useful purpose and cuts the potential kit down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylari
The issue with giving CNJ a DPS job is that you're left with a class that has more wasted abilities than useful abilities and 2 wasted proc traits. You *could* turn them into an effective DPS job, but you're left with too many healer role artifacts. Of course, because WHM has no native CDs that are DPS useful, they would have to rely upon cross-class abilities for any kind of burst functionality, which, since they're rDPS, limits them to Raging Strikes, Swiftcast, and Surecast. -
12-21-2013, 05:58 PMJoven
Anyone remember Geomancers? I used to love those guys.
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12-21-2013, 07:14 PMXanderOlivieriYes this is what I was asking. A Tank class whose primary function is through Magic over Melee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katchii
No I don't really count the Paladin as a Mage class. Even through history, yes they can use magic, but that is not their fundamental function. They are a Melee class that uses the divine. They can cross class with White Mages and use the basic spells from them, but then utilize their own physical skills as the main set for their build. Definitely more Melee than Magic. The basis of a Paladin is in a lot of other classes that can use minor magic skills.
I was wondering if a Magic centered Tank were possible in the future.
I never would have thought about a Geomancer being a Tank. They'd be healer or DPS but I'd find it both interesting and fun if they could make a Geomancer Tank. -
12-22-2013, 02:07 AMAndrewAlexander
Think creatively. Rdm was master of enhancing and enfeebling classes. SE could make rapier swords with magic dmg rather than physical. Actions could enhance attacks and combos could land enbeebles. Fast cast trait to speed up stoneskin and cure. Lets not forget phalanx. Enmity tags to hold hate. If se makes a base class for it, Dancer could be an analogue job based on how they worked in this fashion on ffxi.
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12-22-2013, 01:20 PMGamemakoI certainly agree about LNC. MRD is also fairly well-suited to a DPS already, especially in 2.1 with the awesome utility provided. I do think that GLA, ARC, PGL, CNJ, and THM will require some pretty large changes to make the change to another job (no need to bring up this PGL thing again).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitru
I'll have to defer to Kitru's evaluation here. You have 5 offense-related abilities and 8 healing-related abilities (Cure/2/3, Medica/2, Protect, Raise, Esuna), plus the stance which is only meaningful for a character built with MND and class traits for MND and healing which are otherwise totally useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylari
Only in FF11. Those roles have never been related to Red Mage in any other game. Rant aside, enfeebles are not tank-specific and are therefore not generally tank-appropriate.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewAlexander
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12-22-2013, 02:46 PMSylariOh no I certainly agree it wouldn't be clean or very nice... I just think it's not impossible. I mean in that same vein Arcanists have only one healing spell (and nine offensive ones) and the wrong trait stats too and I've heard a lot of WHMs lately grumbling about Scholar being the better designed healer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamemako
Not... really. RDM is all about being the two core mages spliced together on a halfassed fighter. It might lend itself to a bard-esque utility DPS, but playing at tank (or this notion of a buffer/debuffer) run counter to the class' normal themes.Quote:
Rdm was master of enhancing and enfeebling classes.
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12-22-2013, 07:09 PMNaharaOnly in XI and that "mastery" was the bane of every Red Mage I've ever encountered. They hated the fact that a job that was usually the jack-of-all-trades mix of melee and magic was relegated to the back line as a debuffer and Refresh bot, because they were too squishy and dealt too little damage to put on the front lines. I'm pretty sure there'd be a similar riot if Square Enix forced Red Mage to, once again, be a back-line job.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewAlexander