Current/Upcoming War changes and current tanks, let's talk about that.

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Originally Posted by MarkR171

WARs benefit more because of the increased HP. About 30% more HP than PLDs with comparable equipment. Of course, it's essentially the same effect as WAR's increased benefit from healing.

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Oddly enough Stoneskin is exactly the same on a PLD vs WAR. Their eHP is identical given the same VIT and the 20% DR from Shield Oath makes Stoneskin worth exactly same same eHP as it does on WAR.

As far as the healing goes warriors actually lose out to PLD's in that regard by 5%. 20% DR > 25% hp + 20% healing bonus.

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Originally Posted by Earnhardt

There is so much... Bad information in this threat its unreal.

1. Warriors do not have a 30% increase in health over a paladin. both of us in full i90 gear have 7000 and 8300 health respectively. That's 1300 health increase which is like roughly 18% increase? taking quick guess and assume you are talking about when using inner beast and you can get up to 10k? that doesn't stay and is not a permanent buff so shouldn't be counted as saying you have that much reliable health over another class.

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#1 a PLD with 7000hp and a WAR with 8300hp in a party are no NOT equally geared.

#2 Inner Beast increases HP? That must have been stealth added or something...

The thing about misinformation... is that touting your T5 clears doesn't make you immune to spouting it from your arse!


Morel of the story kids: Turn 5 doesn't make you smart.

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Originally Posted by Earnhardt

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1) A warrior in full i90 will have around ~8800-9000hp(depending on food used/race) fully buffed in a raid setting, the skill you're possibly referring to is thrill of battle. Warriors in equal gear will always have +25% more health than paladins, plus a little extra from the warrior job.

2) I kind of agree with this.

3) Have you read the confirmed warrior updates coming with the patch? Warriors will have 20% damage reduction for every death sentence(plus 30% DR on vengeance and a ghetto variation of HG which sucks). This coupled with the fact that warriors also get 20% increased healing baseline in defiance is huge really. Then there's also Twin already being done with warriors tanking. If you'd properly read my post I referred to dreads in turn 4. And yes, I have cleared Twintania multiple times, thanks for asking.

4) People are different, some people like to run different set ups with new patches as things become stronger (eg me playing warrior instead of pld).

5) Specifics haven't been given of the new debuff given to warriors, however having both paladin and warrior in the same group will probably be beneficial due to this.

edit: I thought phase 3 was dive bombs? Scourge/Twin to 85% > Conflag/Fireballs > Divebomb/snakes > Twisters > Liquid Hell/Hatch.

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Originally Posted by symba

warriors also get 20% increased healing baseline in defiance is huge really.

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This is accounted for by Shield Oath, which is an effective 25% more healing. This has been discussed ad nauseum on these forums, WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL GETTING THIS WRONG!?

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Originally Posted by Paikis

This is accounted for by Shield Oath, which is an effective 25% more healing. This has been discussed ad nauseum on these forums, WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL GETTING THIS WRONG!?

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In comparison to the current 15% at 5 stacks of wrath was the comparison I was making, 20% baseline compared to that is huge. I do understand the nuances of paladins having 5% more effective healed.

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Originally Posted by symba

In comparison to the current 15% at 5 stacks of wrath was the comparison I was making, 20% baseline compared to that is huge. I do understand the nuances of paladins having 5% more effective healed.

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Then I will ask you to please watch how you word things.

20% is good, but it really should be 25%. I don't know how you can call it huge though, when it is still less than Shield Oath gets. The ability comes pre-nerfed, and they've just "buffed" (air-quotes) it to be still slightly worse than the equivalent ability on a PLD.

Having said that, i think the change I'm most excited about is Storm's Path, and not for the reason most people will think.

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Originally Posted by Earnhardt

There is so much ...Bad information in this threat its unreal. First off I play both and I am in a FC that clears through turn 5 and we use both paladin and warrior setup most of the time even though the other tank also has paladin leveled as well.

1. Warriors do not have a 30% increase in health over a paladin. both of us in full i90 gear have 7000 and 8300 health respectively. That's 1300 health increase which is like roughly 18% increase? taking quick guess and assume you are talking about when using inner beast and you can get up to 10k? that doesn't stay and is not a permanent buff so shouldn't be counted as saying you have that much reliable health over another class.

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A Paladin with 7k health is equivalent to a WAR with 8750 health.
If the Warrior has anything less they are not equal geared.
You also mean Thrill of Battle and not INner beast which no one counts.

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Originally Posted by symba

I honestly don't understand why warriors are so 'skill' based, they're not.

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Its the difference between the WAR and PLD aoe enmity. PLDs just have to use Flash without much regard towards their positioning whereas WARs have to take their positioning into consideration when using Overpower. However, outside of mobs, not really much difference imo. I wouldn't call it "skill." Just differences in what a WAR/PLD needs to consider when doing dungeon runs.

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Originally Posted by Earnhardt

3. I am not sure why you would prefer to MT as warrior on twin after patch, I have seen her death sentence post Phase 3 Hit our warrior in full i90 for as high as 8200 dmg and that doesn't count the auto attack that will surely follow. She is going to do this every 35 sec, so I don't see any series of new buffs that would keep warriors on its toes consistently receiving dmg like this. Can it possibly be handled? I am sure people could find a way and pattern and setup. But that goes back to is it worth the trouble? And in your refrence to warriors needing gear to tank dreads? not sure if you have done twintania but the dread nights are untankable and require no gear. they target someone and run to them and kill them instantly. If you mean the snakes instead? We have dps tank the small snakes cause they hit like girls...so gear is not needed for those either.

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The reasoning behind WAR MT/PAL OT on TT after patch is this:
1. Inner beast (20% damage reduction) up for every death sentence (6 second buff, wrath needed loadable in aprox. ~22 seconds)
2. Stacking of warrior and paladin damage reducer on TT (Though we don't know the exact effects of this yet)
3. Need for paladin stun bot on dread knight

It's 1 that makes WAR slightly more desirable for MT, 3 that makes paladin much more desirable for off tank, and 2 that makes the pair more desirable than double PAL or double WAR.

Now there are no buffs to encounters and no nerfs to Paladin, so anyone that was doing double Paladin before can do double Paladin now. What my tank bro and myself are both doing though is preparing ourselves to be able to be able to switch between PAL and WAR as is optimal for current encounters but more importantly future encounters.

I should have my WAR to 50 prior to 2.1, and should be maxed out on myth gear I need for PAL the week after allowing me to start investing myth into a WAR bis set so that I'll be prepared to run either role when the next tier of BC is released. PAL will likely be my preferred spec, however I'll be ready to run either for the next tier of content.

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Originally Posted by Paikis

Then I will ask you to please watch how you word things.

20% is good, but it really should be 25%. I don't know how you can call it huge though, when it is still less than Shield Oath gets. The ability comes pre-nerfed, and they've just "buffed" (air-quotes) it to be still slightly worse than the equivalent ability on a PLD.

Having said that, i think the change I'm most excited about is Storm's Path, and not for the reason most people will think.

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It is huge, it means you can pop IB for damage mitigation and keep your 20% healing buff(you really should compare this to prepatch/postpatch instead of comparing it to paladin). While I understand there's a 5% difference, it's not too big of a deal in my honest opinion. I also apologize for the wording of my first post. Regardless, warrior will be in a significantly better spot post patch.