Is Paladin the least fun class to play?

Forgive me, but isn't a class being "fun" subjective? Asking the public if you should find something 'fun' is kind of a silly concept...but whatever, have at you I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Valhinjin

Overall, I enjoy paladin but do agree with some of your points. While it isn't very complex, it does have multiple rotations and situational cooldowns - just like other classes. They are just really simple. Sword Oath as is stands right now, is generally useless. Our cross-class abilities are generally useless as well.

I don't really see the need for an MP "stance" because we currently have the Riot Combo which regens enough MP to continue on with Flash. And people over-simplify the combos imo. It's not like you just run up and start Halone, you'd want Fight or Flight and Bloodbath up, probably hit Circle of Scorn for the damage tick and quick aggro, cycle in Spirits Within on cooldown, and you'd want to manage your DR on Flash to keep Blind up as much as possible. If there are two enemies or random single adds you'd want to split the combo and tab target through the aggro list as well, managing aggro when needed, on top of managing Rampart or Conv etc. depending on the situation. Three of more, you'd want to keep up your CoS, Flash, and Riot Combo for MP regen. This is on top of positional awareness and mechanic avoidance. You end up with something more like:

Single Pull: FoF > BB > Lob > CoS > SW > Flash > Halone Combo (cycling in Flash for blind, SW on cooldown, CoS on cooldown, Rampart/Conv/Bulwark etc when applicable)
Multiple: FoF > BB > Lob > CoS > Some defensive CD > Flash (till aggro is solid) > Riot Combo (same as above, SW/CoS on cooldown, def CDs where applicable)

That said, it's not all that complicated, but it's not "spam 1, 2, 3" like people seem to think. Tanking in general, regardless of the class, presents a lot of challenges that DPS simply don't have to deal with. And when we screw up it's usually a wipe, so there's more pressure. We get the brunt of enemy mechanics (in most fights), we have to deal with placement, we have to cycle mobs and pay attention to hate levels, mark for DPS (when applicable), and we set the pace for runs in dungeons. The addition of these challenges is probably why they made the actual gameplay a bit more simple for the tanks. You also have to have some boss knowledge and know when to use things like Sentinel and Hallowed Ground - particularly on big hits like from Titan's MB.

I think those are the challenges that make Paladin "fun" for me - but those come with the territory for tanks and are not exclusive to paladins. The play style is rather simple but keeping the big picture in mind I'm fine with how they are.

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"The addition of these challenges is probably why they made the actual gameplay a bit more simple for the tanks." That's a good point.

Honestly, the only valid point I believe is the "extra stress" tanks got because their mess up tend to be more costly than DPS, although it doesn't apply to everyone (like myself). But seriously, do we -really- get the brunt of enemy mechanics? My only jobs over lvl 12 are both tanks, so I can't say I experience what DPS and healers have to do, but it always seemed on par with each other to me.

EDIT: If the devs said it, then I guess it is.

But in the end, maybe you're right. Maybe some people will never get bored of Paladins because of how tanking is.

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Originally Posted by harkinate

Forgive me, but isn't a class being "fun" subjective? Asking the public if you should find something 'fun' is kind of a silly concept...but whatever, have at you I suppose.

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Do some people truly reply after reading the title only?

Please kindly read the point 2, third line of the thread.

They need to give PLD a finishing third WS for ending the riot blade combo.

You can pretty much play PLD and read a book at the same time. Besides a handful of cool downs ,that really only matter in a couple of situations, all you do it spam one combo and flash.

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Originally Posted by Alywell

Do some people truly reply after reading the title only?

Please kindly read the point 2, third line of the thread.

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Nah, I'm good.

What I found most frustrating when playing my paladin was the number of buttons that were just super niche (whereas instead the Warrior in those same slots get additional combo moves and varied offensive options).

You have spells like Tempered Will and Cover which have an extremely narrow scope of usefulness. Then you have Sword Oath, which isn't bad at all but is still sorta niche and just takes up space more often than not... and even when you do use it has a really lackluster benefit from a thematic and visceral perspective. Which when compounded with the already reactive design of the class leaves you with just a very limited set of active options.

Then you have stuff like Flash which is mechanically very sound but also rather boring from a design perspective.

And there's some mechanics that feel underutilized: Riot blade - MP dump is a cool mechanic, but the only thing you have to reliably spend MP on is Flash which, again, isn't a particularly interesting spell even if it's good.

Personally I'd love to see an offensive MP dump of some kind. Or a third hit in the riot chain. Or cover becoming a more usable skill.

One thing is that there's a difference between complexity/enjoyment of the class and complexity/enjoyment of what's par for the course when tanking. Paladin is a pretty simple class, the only complexity it gains is from the nature of tanking which will always apply regardless of class choice. Most bosses are immune to blind/stun/pacify, so those are out. MP isn't heavily taxed on single target so no need for riot blade combo. Hell, the only place I find myself actually using the riot blade combo is as turn 4 off tank. What does this leave on bosses? RoH combo, spirit's within/circle of scorn off cooldown, cd rotation either back to back or on a specific move. That's the only decision a paladin has to make when tanking a boss, when to use cooldowns. Does paladin have the tools it needs to tank? Yes. Is tanking in and of itself interesting/fun? For me at least it is. But paladin itself is pretty weak in its design. It's almost as if they had a checklist on what a tank needs to be able to do and came up with the absolute minimum to accomplish it while being able to justify the end result as a class.

As a pure turtle tank, I think PLD (My main job, by the way) is quite boring.
The fun part happens when you try to be a little more than that.

As an example, let's take the Tonberry King. You can tank it straitgh up, with Shield Oath, using your cooldowns for grudge move.
Or you can tank it with Sword Oath to do far more DPS, pop Shield Oath for the first Grudge, go back to Sword Oath, pop Shield Oath and Rampart for the second grudge, and so on...When trying to optimize both your tanking and your DPS, that's when PLD becomes reaaally fun to play.

As a side note, I'd really appreciate a third combo to have a more complex rotation. And I think Sword Oath sould have a self-cure potency boost, so that the "conjurer part" of PLD wouldn't be totally useless.

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Originally Posted by Alywell

Do some people truly reply after reading the title only?

Please kindly read the point 2, third line of the thread.

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Titles should not pose a question with the subject of body only slightly tied to it.

Re: Sword Oath. Use it more. Shield Oath is far from mandatory. Even offtank PLDs in Primals/Coil can also be using it to good effect.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Re: Sword Oath. Use it more. Shield Oath is far from mandatory. Even offtank PLDs in Primals/Coil can also be using it to good effect.

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Sword oath only makes the game more fun (some may argue otherwise) for your healer.