Stronger punishments for bailing

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Originally Posted by Archona

Do not expect perfection from public Duty Finder, especially when players on other servers have NO loyalty to you or reputation to worry about.

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This cuts both ways, a tank shouldn't be bailing just a DF PUG because he failed to find perfection, not just for a PUG to be surprised to find a tank who is too much of a primadonna to breath the same air as anyone with less than a +1 relic and full allagan.

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Originally Posted by MercurialZero

If they cause multiple wipes due to shear ineptitude and show no signs of heeding advice given, they deserve the long queue that gets handed to them. Let them go sit in a corner and think about what they've done. Meanwhile, I'll be eating my sandwich.

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And this is the problem attitude I'm talking about. A party is not one DPS jockey - even a small party has 2 other people besides the idiot and the tank who're going to eat your punishment for one persons mistake.

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Originally Posted by RoosterAgathos

So why not replenish ranks when they leave? Why don't you go in as a tank? Why are you expecting everyone to be as noble as you?.

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You cannot replenish ranks in HM trials; and finding a tank to replace a lost tank in a dungeon is harder than finding a tank in the first place. No tank queues for "in progress" when they can get a fresh team that hasn't apparently had trouble retaining members in the past.

Also, "not bailing because the rest of the party has less than allagan gear" or "not bailing because someone accidentlly pulled aggro one time" isn't noble, it's just normal bloody courtesy. As for why I'm not a tank on that occasion? - Because you can't get a relic by doing the trials as a different class to the one you're gearing.

Ryuujin,

Level a tank through the DF experience. You'll come across just as many primadonna players in the healer and dps roles as you currently harp about in the tank role. Look forward to undergeared dps and healers tell you how horrible you are regardless of what you are (or are not) doing. Enjoy the level 50 experience of dps (and even healers) perceive you are going "too slow" and must unleash hell before you've done so much as a single tomahock throw or shield lob or feel the need to pick up additional packs. Learn the futility of marking mobs for a kill order when everyone seems to prefer to find their own target and spam AoE. Heaven forbid tanks just take a single mob group (with kill order) at time to get a feel for the dps/healers competence.

Not much of an issue now, but at launch it was amusing how everyone expected the tanks to know every boss fight in all dungeons and explain it to the rest of the group. Many healers and even dps would leave rather than "wasting" time to let a new tank learn the dungeon or bother to explain it themselves (or no one leaves...meaning you all waste the entire dungeon time allotment then take the debuff for completion failure).

Edit : Also, a harsher desertion penalty is going to hurt everyone in the group until a "vote kick" system is in place (not to mention the people that innocently leave through an unintentional disconnect). As pissed off as you are at primadonna tanks leaving your groups, you'll only get more frustrated when they just afk in the zone until someone else eats the deserter penalty.

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

And this is the problem attitude I'm talking about. A party is not one DPS jockey - even a small party has 2 other people besides the idiot and the tank who're going to eat your punishment for one persons mistake.

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What you're forgetting is that there are times you will want to leave the dungeon. People will say that it's DF, you get what you get, and that's true. But sometimes what you get, cannot do the instance. Say you get a group that can't seem to beat the first boss in AK. You tell them what they're doing wrong, whatever. They still fail, multiple times. Should someone be punished for leaving because they KNOW people aren't getting it? It's clear when people improve, it's also clear when they do not. With your idea, it would be better for the person to afk at the entrance instead of taking the hit, they getting punished because they got unlucky with a bad group.

The blames should not always be put on the quitters. Say, yesterday I did AK with a tank whose HP was even less than mine (I'm a DD, my HP is 4k3 and his was 4k2 even with group buff). I gave it a try. Things seemed to go smoothly until the Wall (although on 1st boss it was "a bit" chaotic). He kept dying, falling, losing enmity. I was super patient, but after the 6th wipe I couldn't do anything but to quit.
So should I get punished stronger for something that isn't my fault?

You can't punish people for leaving a bad group. The whole entering and then leaving because the group is not OP doesn't happen as much as you think. The main reasons people leave are frustration with players who just are not getting mechanics or with a language barrier so they can't help people.

My reason for leaving 99% of the time is that i can't be bothered to wipe over and over trying to make people understand what they are doing wrong. I don't mind helping people who want to help themselves improve but it's not the job of anyone to carry bad players.

You can ignore the penalty of you make a pre-made group anyway. The only reason cor positions like tanks and healers use the DF is because its often easier than forming a group. If you make it harder for them your queues as dps are going to jump through the roof.

Realistic things that could be done to help this situation a little bit:

1. Make "Join in Progress" default ON, instead of default OFF. (This is so that after someone leaves, there's a higher chance of getting a replacement)

2. Implement "vote to kick" feature. (This way someone dissatisfied has another button to push besides "Leave". 1 person gets left without group instead of 3, and progress can continue.)


As for the idea of simply increasing the leaving lockout timer, that seems bad to me.
- You will have someone instead of leaving simply go AFK. They hope that someone else leaves first and eats the penalty. Cannot be replaced.
- If that someone leaving is a tank, then there is even LESS tanks playing in the dungeon. Which means even LESS everyone else playing in the dungeon too.

Bad idea is bad. Please go become a game designer and see for yourself.

Anyone that tries to make other ppl leave should have a PERMANENT DF BAN. On FIRST offense.

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Originally Posted by RhazeCain

Realistic things that could be done to help this situation a little bit:

1. Make "Join in Progress" default ON, instead of default OFF. (This is so that after someone leaves, there's a higher chance of getting a replacement)

2. Implement "vote to kick" feature. (This way someone dissatisfied has another button to push besides "Leave". 1 person gets left without group instead of 3, and progress can continue.)


As for the idea of simply increasing the leaving lockout timer, that seems bad to me.
- You will have someone instead of leaving simply go AFK. They hope that someone else leaves first and eats the penalty. Cannot be replaced.
- If that someone leaving is a tank, then there is even LESS tanks playing in the dungeon. Which means even LESS everyone else playing in the dungeon too.

Bad idea is bad. Please go become a game designer and see for yourself.

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vote kick the tank .. wait another 20 minutes for a new tank . great idea NOT!

make friends you will need them.. make a LS and start to collect friends ! i do most of my fights with my LS friends and trusting fc members