New(b) PLD

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Originally Posted by Henlhaw

I was thinking, it's probably more interesting if stoneskin was used on you by one of the DPS from time to time, instead of being cast b yourself or the heal.

The summoner can easily spare a 3 seconds cast when all his dots are up.

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The problem is which DPS job can use CNJ cross class skills? SMN can't use it :)

Maybe in future patches new jobs will allow it

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Originally Posted by Casper

Also, regarding the "summoner can use it" -- not necessarily: in titan for example, you get breathing room before MB, smn do not (avoid landslide, kill gaol, avoid bombs). Moreover, their MP is a valued ressource -- yours is just sitting idly there.

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I am pretty sure that SMN don't have access to stoneskin ;)

http://xivdb.com/?skill/129/Stoneskin

GLA PGL MRD LNC ARC CNJ THM ACN PLD WHM SCH

All you saying that stoneskin is not needed are just nuts and/or lazy. If you have it and don't use it, you are plain lazy.


Saying "if you need it your healers need to be better" is just insane. So what ? Is it ok if i don't use Hallowed ground either ? I mean it is not as if anything was made so that it is mandatory, if my healers don't suck i won't need it, right ? Why stop there ?

The truth is, a lot of bosses in endgame use abilities on party members, and to do so turn away from the tank, giving him a nice window to cast stoneskin. This will in turn give some breathing room to your healers, which is never a bad thing. Hate shouldn't be a problem, so the lost GCD hate wise is no issue. Mp are only used for flash (single target for the blind, so defensively too) and for stoneskin, and you can regen it through riot blade if you have somewhat of a decent lead anyway, so here again, it is free.

Basically stoneskin is a free 550-600 hp everytime the boss turn to cast stuff on other players. If you say that is not usefull, i don't know what to tell to you. I would love a warrior that would give me a "yeah i don't use inner beast, like, ever, cause it is not needed if my healers are good (i.e. overgeared)".

As for titan HM, the guy will use landslide, during which you have all the time you need to cast stoneskin, then he will turn to you and send you a nice 6k total of damage (AA RB AA MB) in a 2 second span time. Stoneskin is just nuts to help deal with it. Yeah, sure, the naysayer will say it is not needed, and of course with their team full of relic+1 where everyone know the fight in and out it is not remotely needed. But going with a "normal" team (i mean one that can beat it, but struggle a bit), you will be SO GLAD to have it.

Also, regarding the "summoner can use it" -- not necessarily: in titan for example, you get breathing room before MB, smn do not (avoid landslide, kill gaol, avoid bombs). Moreover, their MP is a valued ressource -- yours is just sitting idly there.

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Originally Posted by Casper

All you saying that stoneskin is not needed are just nuts and/or lazy. If you have it and don't use it, you are plain lazy.

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I'm not disputing it's lazy to not get it, but the question he was asking was if you NEED it. And you DON'T. And I'm not disputing it's better to have it than not, but it isn't something that separates a good/bad tank.

Not having stoneskin will not prevent him from being able to progress through end-game content. I'm on turn 4 in coils and not once has there been a situation where "I" needed to cast stoneskin. My WHM casts it all the time already.

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Originally Posted by Harby

Heya, fresh lv50 and I was wondering, how important is it to get Mercy Strike (MRD 26 iirc) and most importantly, Stoneskin from CNJ 34?

Right now I have 8 in MRD and 15 in CNJ, and given my farming needs in philosophers and stuff like that I need to prioritize stuff. So for the current content I'll be farming (mostly wanderers for now for 2-3 more DL pieces I guess), is stoneskin really needed and should it be a top priority?

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Relatively new 50 GLD myself.

I've been glad of Stoneskin in duty-finder dungeons so far, but I can see it having little/no use at higher levels of endgame or if your healer is always on the ball.
When I'm in a Duty Finder group with a SCH instead of a WHM (seems to happen quite a lot) then I'll throw Stoneskin up on everyone before a boss fight, and Stoneskin myself immediately after each group of mobs.
My MP is only really used for Stoneskin and Flash anyway... it really doesn't cost me much and it helps me withstand an Alpha Strike from multiple enemies - 10% extra HP buffer means I can wait a bit longer before using any cooldowns, or even skip them completely on trash mobs. On Bosses it's a bit more situational. I'll only use it if the healer's hard-pressed or I've got plenty of hate lead + time to cast and I know a big hit is about to happen.

When soloing, it's brilliant. Tanked many a FATE boss whilst levelling up using just Stoneskin and my chocobo.

As others may have mentioned, Mercy Strike helps DPS a tiny little bit since it's off the Global Cooldown. But the HP it grants can't be relied upon as you're almost never guaranteed the killing hit.
I tend to keep Foresight, Bloodbath, Stoneskin and Cure on my Cross-Class bar, and swap in Protect for soloing and Mercy Stoke for groups.
I tried Fracture, but didn't find any real need for it. Could easily swap something else in for Cure if needed though - it's very rarely used in groups unless the Healer DCs, and is very underpowered on a PLD even with Convalescence up.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

Snip.

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Thing, is, you don't have to complete the level 50 quest for pld to get hallowed ground either.

The problem is not to create a black/white distinction between good and bad tank. There are actually 50 shades of grey ! (sorry, couldn't help it :p ).

No, seriously. It is not binary. You don't need stoneskin to perform, but it will make you a better tank by a non-negligible amount. Mercy stroke on the other hand is utterly useless and have a much much much smaller impact.

Also, i don't think your whm will cast stoneskin on you once the fight has started, or at least not on a regular basis.

This is my own personal experience with it, but I currently make use of:

Stoneskin - It's 10% of your max HP and makes for a decent buffer, if you're healers can't get it on for you (or prior to big attacks). I also make use of it in cases where I am off-tanking (Ifrit stun duty, for example) to provide the stoneskin buffer to other DDs before major damage, or just for the sake of it sometimes. Once you have a lead on enmity, you can help out the healers by taking care of some of your own damage mitigation, especially whilst a mob is using a special attack with a cast time.

Fracture - I use this following Circle of Scorn. It's a little extra damage and damage is enmity on top of the normal combo. I start to use it once I have a decent start on enmity.

Foresight - +20% defense increase. It might not be huge, but it's better than nothing.

Bloodbath - It's slightly useful and it's an off-GCD buff so why not. It works better with Sword Oath up, seeing as the HP absorb procs on both hits of the auto attack and also because your damage isn't being reduced (sometimes you can use Sword Oath instead of Shield Oath, even when tanking - mostly when you are fighting single target mobs, or when clumps can be slept).

Then I'll swap in and out between: Raise (for dungeons, just in case), Mercy Stroke (it's a small amount of extra damage) and Protect (for those solo moments).