Dark Devices - Exploitation

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Originally Posted by Kraun

What baffles me is why someone would QQ about getting fast XP or levels in the first place?
How is "your" problem if someone levels fast? It doesn't affect your gameplay in any way.
Concentrate on your own gameplay and leave others to do what they will.

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My issue is FATEs trivialize a lot of other content in the game. Such as Grand Companies, Levequests, Dungeons, Guildhests, Crafting, Supply & Demand, Player Skill, Player Attitude, and most of all, game quality.

Level how you want? Sure. At the cost of the above? No.

"I deliberately troll dd zergs and now I'm on the forum crying because they blist and rage at me"

Oh lawdy. We have a common enemy, folks. It isn't the people that want to level faster, and it isn't the people that want higher quality to level people.

Our common enemy vis a vis is SE. want folds in them dungeons learning how to be pro lee7 supahskillet bo billet a wabba jacka flim glam, soloing coil in their sleep?

The answer is to make that sort out content the most rewarding thing to do. Dungeons should be the xp farms, the lot farms and the gil farms. Sadly, they're not the best xp sources right now, and it can be really hit or miss finding groups.

Say 'find an fc' all you like. Most fc's aren't farming the dungeons you level in, or need for the story. They're not going to start farming sastasha and coppermine etc either.

Why? There's nothing in those they want or need when their time needs to be spent farming hm primals and tomestones. Will you sometimes get help in kindlier fc's? Sure. Will some people sacrifice their time doing something worthless to their own advancement to help you with yours?

Sometimes yes. Most days? No. Finding an fc does amazingly little to ameliorate the actual problem.

What would fix it? More quests. Dungeons offering rewards comsnsurate with your actual level and significantly better xp than fates. GC seals on completion.

There. I fixed the problem, and I didn't troll scores of my fellow players repeatedly because I needed to make a moral statement either.

If its such a huge exploitation then Square will fix it since they seem to be fixing exploitation issues. with the sheer amount of people that have been coming to this fate, I think the exp people are expecting is quite impossible now. Don't blame fates for lack of skill in a player, you blame the player. someone can easily learn how to play in a simple video and fates teach you if you already don't know, to not stand in the red crap.. How you level and how you play at end game are 2 different things. Plus no one cares how you got to 50, its all about your gear and if you know the fight plain and simple. "oh hey i got to 50 without doing DD!" do you hear the crickets?

@mixplate: that the trouble SE just decide it work as intended (cf: camate).
i still try to understand this decision. even if they double the exp from dungeon it will be impossible to beat this ratio time/exp. more important, exept the gears (what you don't get everytime) you often loose gil in dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Chrysania

What would fix it? More quests. Dungeons offering rewards comsnsurate with your actual level and significantly better xp than fates. GC seals on completion.

There. I fixed the problem, and I didn't troll scores of my fellow players repeatedly because I needed to make a moral statement either.

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XP rate always felt fairly similar to me in level appropriate dungeons, with a decent group. I'd still rather do FATEs than dungeons to level... why?

- Can leave when you want, like if a run for a dungeon you want comes up in FC.
- Don't have to be on full top form, something you can do when tired or lacking focus.
- Can solo if you feel like it.
- Fairly consistent XP.. dungeons will always be highly variable depending on others in the group, whether they have done it before, whether they are geared correctly etc.

Dungeons are far less elective and have absolute time demands that are fairly substantive, yes. You and three other people WILL be doing a dungeon run for at least 30 minutes, probably 45, quite possibly 1 hour or more. You cannot take breaks, you cannot go AFK for very long, you cannot go 'dinner, brb in 15'. Fates don't require the sort of time commitment dungeons do, or the communicative coordination of multiple parties.

Ergo, dungeons would have to be substantially more rewarding than fates to pull even with them. If a dungeon takes ~1 hour to do, that isn't just any ol' hour. Its an hour in which you're committed. You can't so much as go afk to piss, or there's a good chance your tank or healer will go 'eff this' and go get another instaqueue.

If you're in an FC wherein you're fortunate enough to have people at all times wanting to do what you're wanting/needing to do, this isn't too much of a problem. So, the reward system as it is seems tuned to the perfect ideal.

If you and your perfect team can run a dungeon every 30-45 minutes, you could feasibly run 8-10 dungeons in an 8 hour play session, which would net you XXX,XXX experience, XXXX gil, etcetera, so on.

Nearly nobody has a perfect team to do things with at all times. I'd wager that a good chunk of us haven't had 8 hour play sessions since before we were adults with grown-up responsibilities, with the occasional burst during vacation times and other definitively 'not routinely' occasions.

When you do have a team, its unlikely that it will be perfect and a dungeon run might take far longer than a perfect dreamteam would've required. People go AFK. People take breaks. People get tired. Your tank from Arizona and your healer from Australia can't always be on at the same time as you in New Jersey and the other DPS in Florida. Your tank works nights IRL, your healer in Australia's unemployed and has to be awake during his day sometimes to go job hunting and your DPS in Florida's only around every 3rd day and nobody knows why.

This is commonly the reality of running group content; its been 'balanced' to make it fairly difficult for the people that play 16-18 hours a day, every day, to advance too rapidly. If you play 3 hours a night on weeknights and work weekends? You're pretty much boned. You won't get in an FC doing group content with that kind of schedule, you won't have teammates to do things with very often and you absolutely will not get much done this side of ever.


Unless you fate farm, of course. That is, presently, the only consistent means by which most people can consistently do anything with others. You run out of quests pretty fast; there goes most of the soloable content worth doing. Battleleves? Don't make me laugh; you're wasting leves you could be using to give worthwhile boosts to crafting for nearly nothing, and fates are free.

Even if you can do dungeons consistently, they just plain get sucky, tedious and boring when you've done the same one repeatedly, and while this is true of fates too, fates are not nearly so much hassle to get moving on in the first place.

If there were a lot more quests, people could rely on those more than having to do fates. Quests give pretty decent Gil, you see. Fates...frankly, don't. That'd be one good reason to run quests instead of fates, if you wanted gil and didn't want to be playing World of Craftercraft to do it.

Dungeons offering gear and token rewards of use to you no matter your level (Yes, even max level) would be good. For every dungeon, a daily XP bonus like we get the first time we do guildhests. Give guildhests a smaller-but-daily-recurring XP/Gil boost too.

Dungeons offering GC seals would be fantastic, even if just once per day as part of, oh, that as-yet imaginary daily "THANK YOU FOR KEEPING OUR DUNGEONS POPULATED" reward to get everybody running more dungeons of all levels, thus helping to ensure that more people get to do more dungeons at least a little closer to when they'd like to.

Stuff like that matters. Well, it will soon enough I suppose. It'll explain itself real soon, I expect.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonJenn

The FATE event Dark Devices is being used to effectively power level players by intentionally avoiding completing the objective and farming the endlessly spawning monsters that are not relevant to the completion of the FATE.

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This whole argument/exploit claim is ridiculous.
You're running FATE's for exp... They are getting exp...

ALL FATES HAVE TIMERS!
So just help them, which will help you, and before the timer clicks beat boss.
Thus maximizing your exp (which is what you're trying to do isn't it?)

This particular FATE isn't really any option for "powerlevelling" on Hyperion the last few days, a particular troll FC who I won't name sit there night after night with a group of 50s ending DD phase 1 in around 10 seconds just for the lulz of seeing people get mad in shout. Most nights I only get an hour or so to play, but it doesn't bother me.

I can still get a level on my time limited evenings, even if they are knocking 50-100k off my hourly exp (because honestly, the highest "extra" from DD I got was around 150-180k and that was being on whm49 spamming Holy in a party that was also exceptional at getting claims, and it's very very rare to get that much).

You have to be an idiot not to want to join a fate party and not get the 150k+ XP gravy train. Don't spoil it for the other 30+ people doing it.

So true once you've played through the first 50 levels of the game the first time around the rest of the jobs you wanna hit to max lvl asap to focus on end game content and be super flexible for your fc so you can play all types of roles for specific end game encounters. That is of course if you're playing this game to experience it's full content which of course is the majority of players