Animation Lock: Why don't you like it?

gameplay > aesthetics

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

gameplay > aesthetics

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I consider Aesthetics a key component of gameplay experience.. especially in a FF game.

Otherwise, I'd be playing WoW.

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Originally Posted by Zehira

Because it was annoyed. Ifrit's battle for example, when I was a WHM, someone blamed me that I didn't move away from cracks cause of animation lock. It's what it made them thought I suck. =/

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Most of the time, I try not to be this person, but in this instance I just can't help it. If you're on WHM and you couldn't avoid the cracks most of the time, then yes, you did suck. Part of the challenge of that fight was learning to time your spells correctly so that if he did cracks you could move immediately. There are times when you absolutely can't wait to cast, and those are the few times I'll grant that you're going to get hit.

While I hated how long animation lock was, I like the idea in general way better than GCD. Just personal preference. But in every game you learn to play with what you're given. If you can't and the majority of other people can (meaning game not broken), well, then you DO "suck" relative to them.

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Originally Posted by Tinks

Most of the time, I try not to be this person, but in this instance I just can't help it. If you're on WHM and you couldn't avoid the cracks most of the time, then yes, you did suck. Part of the challenge of that fight was learning to time your spells correctly so that if he did cracks you could move immediately. There are times when you absolutely can't wait to cast, and those are the few times I'll grant that you're going to get hit.

While I hated how long animation lock was, I like the idea in general way better than GCD. Just personal preference. But in every game you learn to play with what you're given. If you can't and the majority of other people can (meaning game not broken), well, then you DO "suck" relative to them.

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Hello Tinks,

While I can agree with you how suck I did while being stuck during animation lock. Myself, I did Ifrit's battle many times and 80% of time I was a WHM and 20% of time I was a WAR (never tried a BLM tho) and I have my Ifrit's blade. With animation lock, no matter how good or bad you play, it called "trick." Like, when I started casting spell right before the floor was cracking.

Why can't we do like XI where you are allowed to interrupt your casting a spell?

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

With many of the actions you CAN move while performing, however, strength is lost without that good stance, and with the ones empowered through leg movement, the ability to react should something go wrong is mostly lost when already on the run.

What I'd hope to see is that eventually we will move as more than just capsules with floppy legs following us to mimic real movement. This would be especially important in terms of having the stanced (animation-lock-like) aesthetics without the unrealistic limitations of those locks. Even if left to mimicry, rather than using a point-plant system (essentially, working as if we had real legs), such a system could allow us to take another one or two steps more-or-less freely during the animation. This could then be used for additional effects, without feeling like a hack-and-slash or instant-spam game.

Let's say I'm a Samurai with a defensive ability that will automatically parry the next melee attack from a certain enemy while I have him targeted. If I move in around the enemy's next (auto-blocked) swing, it will bind as well (holding the enemy in a mutual parry, where neither of us can attack further until I chose to break the bind or he backs away or overpowers me). From there some of my abilities will be slightly modified. I can choose a regular heavy attack while stepping towards the outside (everyone in FFXIV was right-handed, so that'd be to the left) and overpower over his blade without risking being hit. I can use a light attack and step forward to cut under his blade while moving past him, again avoiding his attack.

These wouldn't have to be perfectly timed either. Simply hitting the movement key or keys as you start will be enough. They are procedural differences, not hack-and-slash action dynamics. And in the end, this is all you can really do in a true sparring match (to continue with the sword example). Condition-->Trigger-->Procedure-->Retrigger-->Procedure; considering everything in fine and frantic shades of action only gets you killed, no matter how good your reactions are.

To me this makes more sense than our 1.x combos.

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Indeed optimal is a system which sometimes and partially restricts - I was trying to call it a weighted system because each action has a sense of momentum but its obviously more complex then just weights (like the in a duel example you have with locking swords).

Animation locking makes no sense (originated as a technical issue, because blending by hand was expensive and blending by computer was improbable), and no restrictions makes no sense*.. lol - Though I personally find FFXIV's locking so annoying I'd throw the baby out with the bath water in order to get rid of it. *Also in SE worlds their characters can have unrealistic physical attributes like jumping off peoples hands or arms, and sometimes just the air, so in a matter of world immersion no restrictions does make more sense, but that is a SE case... it wouldn't make sense in Dark Souls (which uses a weighted-ish system and heavier combat realism base, you can partially cancel animations and you can slightly modify trajectories of most things during action).

If they do the work to create a weighted / interactive animation system they might as well work further to an action based game, though I doubt they would or want to do that (hardcore action mmorpg - not that I would be aganist it, I think it would be pretty awesome).


Just to add to the why I hate locks ideas - When I start a 42 sword combo, I really cant see the logical argument why I couldnt stop at 32, why do I have to watch all 42 strokes "well because it is a part of the spell" .... "Isnt this the game where I'm supposed to be the character?" "Yeah" "Well then -I- want to stop at 32." lol

Not being able to control your character - bad immersion. Horrible bad bad immersion. Terrible shitty immersion. lol

Weighted or interactive animation systems are logical, but OP was talking about what FFXIV had, and what FFXIV had was a crappy unimmersive device. If someone wants to push a weighted system, where there is no real lock but only variables of control, be my guest.. :P

You should probably create another thread then, I've read a few people like you who arent for the old system but they are for a system. Like not being able to start in mid air and do 720's and moonwalks before landing lol.

I think perhaps what the game needs is more of a Dark Souls/Monster Hunter System with cancellation windows in each move (use the jump button perhaps).

Cancellation is a tried-and-true method that serves as a good compromise between the restrictions of full-locking and the absurdity of roaming around while performing a multihit WS.

Also, I suspect that the animation lock didn't cause half as many deaths in 1.0 as the LAG did. It was the murky combination of the two that made players blame the former over the latter.

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Originally Posted by Zehira

Why can't we do like XI where you are allowed to interrupt your casting a spell?

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Because that would make too much sense.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I think perhaps what the game needs is more of a Dark Souls/Monster Hunter System with cancellation windows in each move (use the jump button perhaps).

Cancellation is a tried-and-true method that serves as a good compromise between the restrictions of full-locking and the absurdity of roaming around while performing a multihit WS.

Also, I suspect that the animation lock didn't cause half as many deaths in 1.0 as the LAG did. It was the murky combination of the two that made players blame the former over the latter.

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As a mage I was more annoyed by the locks / lag combo - amazingly annoying to try and cancel a spell because you see a fireball coming.. you move an inch, character says "screw you" and stops to finish casting after moving for ~1.5 seconds, fireball smashes you in the face (luckily it took two spells to kill you lol).

Though my favorite are the lag deaths, cracks appear you run far away, some how they destroy you and you die on the other side of the arena far away from the cracks. Those were the worst, no reason you should have died but lag.. lol

It happened sometimes when the chameria did the dragon roar.

I've died like that quite a few times lol.

That is certainly a problem with lag rather than lock.

Even cancellation won't work if there is a 2+ second lag on it.

But ARR latency is supposedly much lower than 1.0, so cancellation should be a viable option.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I consider Aesthetics a key component of gameplay experience.. especially in a FF game.

Otherwise, I'd be playing WoW.

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where are your glasses? 2.0. seems to be still VERY "asthetic"

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I've died like that quite a few times lol.

That is certainly a problem with lag rather than lock.

Even cancellation won't work if there is a 2+ second lag on it.

But ARR latency is supposedly much lower than 1.0, so cancellation should be a viable option.

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well when an animation is long (chaos thrust for example) you are bound for 5 seconds on the ground.. and this even without or with lag. tz