Relic Weapons-Broken Promises

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Originally Posted by NefGP

tl;dr - I'd really like to believe that these guys have learned some valuable lessons from past endeavors and can better construct genuine, rewarding challenges as opposed to stale grind-fests that rely largely on luck or obscene amounts of money for players to succeed. Also ideally they shouldn't take more than a few months to complete as opposed to a year or longer. If that's what it takes to keep people interested in your game, then you need to make a better game.

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I'm just curious what was your problem with sky? You seem to be complaining about things taking too long, yet sky allowed "casual" less active players to obtain high end 75 gear without too much effort.

Also, you mentioned earlier that at this point you are very busy and can't play very often. If the most difficult items in the game take YOU only a couple of months to obtain, the highly active players will obtain them in weeks, and what will they do with the rest of their time? Having long term goals and incentives will give the highly active players something to work towards, and it will keep them playing longer. If the endgame winds up how you want it this will become WoW easymode and we'll burn through an entire expansions worth of content in short order. I'm sorry, just because you can't play very often doesn't mean the game should be designed strictly to accommodate your needs. The best way for them to go about this is to have a fair balance of content that will not exclude anyone based on their playtime, yet allow the more active crowd to stay busy working towards items most others will consider a luxury.

edit: looks like I mixed you up with the other miqote who said they couldn't play much, but It still applies anyway

I think its important in this discussion to remember there is a difference between:
Hard-Core Player and Player-Who-Plays-A-Lot.

One does not equate the other.

The system presently caters more to those who play a lot (due to the need to repeat content rather than do content well). For example, it does not matter you can do Hamlet Defense flawlessly in your sleep and get 65k+ scores (a sign of a good player/team). It just matters that you do it often (to get the lucky drop).

Likewise, it does not matter you can easily defeat AV/CC (a sign of a good player). It only matters that you have memorized every click/move/action in a perfect <17 min script (a sign of playing a lot due to memorization).

This also has nothing to do with easy versus hard. What one considers hard, the other can consider easy and vice-versa. I think the real legitimate concerns here are:

The Relic System is geared more towards those who have a lot of time to play. Unfortunately being exceptional at one's job is not sufficient to make up for lack of time to play.


I'm not saying this is right or wrong, good or bad. Just how it is. I do think it is intended this way as FFXIV seems to enjoy its time sinks. What does this mean to those who do not have the ability to fill the time sink? They must manage expectations accordingly I think.

Anyways, good luck out there everyone ^.^;

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

I think its important in this discussion to remember there is a difference between:
Hard-Core Player and Player-Who-Plays-A-Lot.

One does not equate the other.

The system presently caters more to those who play a lot (due to the need to repeat content rather than do content well). For example, it does not matter you can do Hamlet Defense flawlessly in your sleep and get 65k+ scores (a sign of a good player/team). It just matters that you do it often (to get the lucky drop).

Likewise, it does not matter you can easily defeat AV/CC (a sign of a good player). It only matters that you have memorized every click/move/action in a perfect <17 min script (a sign of playing a lot due to memorization).

This also has nothing to do with easy versus hard. What one considers hard, the other can consider easy and vice-versa. I think the real legitimate concerns here are:

The Relic System is geared more towards those who have a lot of time to play. Unfortunately being exceptional at one's job is not sufficient to make up for lack of time to play.


I'm not saying this is right or wrong, good or bad. Just how it is. I do think it is intended this way as FFXIV seems to enjoy its time sinks. What does this mean to those who do not have the ability to fill the time sink? They must manage expectations accordingly I think.

Anyways, good luck out there everyone ^.^;

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Someone who gets it!

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

I think its important in this discussion to remember there is a difference between:
Hard-Core Player and Player-Who-Plays-A-Lot.

One does not equate the other.

The system presently caters more to those who play a lot (due to the need to repeat content rather than do content well). For example, it does not matter you can do Hamlet Defense flawlessly in your sleep and get 65k+ scores (a sign of a good player/team). It just matters that you do it often (to get the lucky drop).

Likewise, it does not matter you can easily defeat AV/CC (a sign of a good player). It only matters that you have memorized every click/move/action in a perfect <17 min script (a sign of playing a lot due to memorization).

This also has nothing to do with easy versus hard. What one considers hard, the other can consider easy and vice-versa. I think the real legitimate concerns here are:

The Relic System is geared more towards those who have a lot of time to play. Unfortunately being exceptional at one's job is not sufficient to make up for lack of time to play.


I'm not saying this is right or wrong, good or bad. Just how it is. I do think it is intended this way as FFXIV seems to enjoy its time sinks. What does this mean to those who do not have the ability to fill the time sink? They must manage expectations accordingly I think.

Anyways, good luck out there everyone ^.^;

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Then we get people that make sub categories of that and the constant bickering goes on and on... Lol. But you are right in every instance.

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Originally Posted by Yucie

And no one likes Ashenspire.

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Well that's just not true.

Uh, Sky wasn't "easy" to get stuff until well after SE changed Ulli and started cracking down on botters.

Oh yeah, 1-hour kirin fights were just oh so much fun too.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

I think its important in this discussion to remember there is a difference between:
Hard-Core Player and Player-Who-Plays-A-Lot.

One does not equate the other.

The system presently caters more to those who play a lot (due to the need to repeat content rather than do content well). For example, it does not matter you can do Hamlet Defense flawlessly in your sleep and get 65k+ scores (a sign of a good player/team). It just matters that you do it often (to get the lucky drop).

Likewise, it does not matter you can easily defeat AV/CC (a sign of a good player). It only matters that you have memorized every click/move/action in a perfect <17 min script (a sign of playing a lot due to memorization).

This also has nothing to do with easy versus hard. What one considers hard, the other can consider easy and vice-versa. I think the real legitimate concerns here are:

The Relic System is geared more towards those who have a lot of time to play. Unfortunately being exceptional at one's job is not sufficient to make up for lack of time to play.


I'm not saying this is right or wrong, good or bad. Just how it is. I do think it is intended this way as FFXIV seems to enjoy its time sinks. What does this mean to those who do not have the ability to fill the time sink? They must manage expectations accordingly I think.

Anyways, good luck out there everyone ^.^;

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I'm hoping more people quote this throughout the rest of this thread... just to simply reiterate the fact that this is a sensible, informed and rational response to the mass of text I had to read to get here...

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Originally Posted by NefGP

Uh, Sky wasn't "easy" to get stuff until well after SE changed Ulli and started cracking down on botters.

Oh yeah, 1-hour kirin fights were just oh so much fun too.

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Hmmm well I wouldn't know about that I never had any trouble with botters farming sky NM, but that is certainly a problem if it was happening. I could maybe see 1 hour kirin fights if a group had no idea what they were doing the first few times, but with a little practice it shouldn't take near that long. What do you expect from a mob that dropped one of the best pieces in the game? Was there any endgame content in XI that wasn't too hard for you?

It is very sad to me every time I see people in this community bunch up and begin arguing about this shit in a manner that seems oddly similar to the political debates going on.

"I have money so you should have money and if you don't you're lazy and that's the only reason." Being a notable attitude going on here.

The issue is that some of the Job's weapons require Materia that is more expensive than the other Job's, and that is imbalanced.

I personally do not think Gil should have any real place anywhere in the Relic Weapon quest and that it should all be very difficult fighting achievements, but that is MY opinion. What is not opinion though, is that these quests should be balanced between the Jobs so that no one Job is much more or less expensive than the others in this regard.

Things like Archer/Bard being more expensive to play because you have to buy ammo, or another job being expensive because the type of food it uses VS another class are usually things you will find out early on while leveling or know ahead of time, but the fact that at 50 your Relic will magically cost more than someone else's is not something a newer player is likely to pick up off the bat, and it's unfair to subject them to / punish them for that down the road when they really had no idea (nor is it fair to expect them to know it ahead of time).

So please, quit turning this kind of thing into the "have and have not" argument where everyone WITH shit calls the ones without lazy and the people without who ARE lazy bitch that everything should be handed to them or whatever. It causes people like me who just want good design and balance to get chewed out by people who don't even listen to what I have to say and just ASSUME I want everything handed to me when in fact I want what they want, just not through BAD design.

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Originally Posted by NefGP

Oh yeah, 1-hour kirin fights were just oh so much fun too.

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Some of us thought so... I loved the hell out of sky before and after they changed around some of the stuff to help prevent botting. My LS did sky twice a week for a loooong time and we had a blast. We never felt bored and always felt a sense of accomplishment when we killed a boss and even more excitement if we got the drop we were looking for.