Did tanks really need more healing

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Good DPS players will always be the top value in raid content because we make or break dps checks.

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You don't need to bring any dps at all in all the fight that lack a dps check. The truth to the matter is that the most important role is tank, you can't clear synced non casual content without one, yet some fight are clearable with a single tank and nothing else. a single tank is more fit for clearing content that whole team of dps.

That being said it kinda balanced by the fact you don't ever need more than 2 tanks for a single fight.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

It's no great mystery.


I think if you actually look at the substance of my post - namely, around the challenge of mitigation - .

I understand why this game has moved away from having tanks position bosses. The netcode is janky compared to a lot of 'modern' MMOs (including circa 2004 Warcraft).

So that leaves mitigation as the unique 'tank check', which is just pass-fail. But why are we so afraid to let tanks fail? And if you're unwilling to challenge tanks on mitigation and survival, to really bring them to the brink - then how can tanks ever be anything more than melee dps with training wheels?

I don't know what the answer is, but it doesn't seem like there's a good one in this current design direction. It feels like they don't actually want a trinity design, but are obliged to stick with it because that's how the game started out..

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Agreeing and adding on...

Tanks do have it a lot easier because it's the least played role in general. Grabbing mobs was harder for tanks when leveling from ARR so that was gone. Gone are the days when tanks actually needed to learn their 1-2-3 combos properly to keep hate on a mob and DPS had to use skills to make sure they didn't gain hate as quickly or dump it so it can go to the tank.

Tanks can tell DPS and healers "Well just don't die" while memes of them getting hit by 7 VULN stacks continue on.

Tanks die - the encounter tends to be over fairly quickly where as a tank survives people can see more of the Dance Battle Choreography to witness how the mechanic may work (but it can be an instant wipe if it's like light party or partner needed mechanics)

They didn't give tanks much to do, they just gave them more to survive. They also tend to have the most uptime on a boss/mob as well.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

So you back away despite you being the one who started the banter. That means enough.

The game hasn't moved away from boss positioning and adds, those things still exist, they're simply diluted in all the new mechanics we got compared to ARR/HW.

Tanks are blue DPS with extra tank mechanics&skills and that's more than fine.

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Okay, look at the boss encounters for a majority of content that's not a dungeon pull. A lot of them are arena bosses. And ones that are not, are generally bosses that eventually have to reset themselves because the tanks didn't put them in the correct position. That's why they designed more annoying "Boss jumping" or phases where the boss transforms into an arena boss at some point.

No one said they didn't exist - but they DID design fights to position better without having a tank do it. So things like wiping the party with "Haircut" in Weeping City exists way less often.

Sadly again, tanks roles were dumbed down so more people could play them so we're at the state we're in now with them being overtuned for encounters for the reasons I mentioned.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Sadly again, tanks roles were dumbed down so more people could play them so we're at the state we're in now with them being overtuned for encounters for the reasons I mentioned.

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The most ironic thing to me is they’ve done so much to simplify and diminish tanks’ role responsibilities and complexities to try and get more people playing it. Yet it’s literally that simplification and diminished responsibility that turns everyone off from playing the ‘blue dps (now with extra invincibility!) role, in my view

I think diluted is a good term since a lot mechanics still exist but they are much less memorable/important. As a veteran player I sometimes wonder how much the nostalgia factor plays with my memory of "the good ol days", but also the game was still fresh and there was a lot of stuff we - as players - were still figuring out. And now, 10 years later, we have honed our playstyles so well that things we might remember as a struggle before are now seemingly trivial. Compare this to players who haven't yet figured out how many aoe's in the game they can dodge without missing a GCD, or somehow that popping 8 oGCDs in a row isn't weird.

Another thing to consider in regards to (lack of) tank/boss positioning - we did gain gap closers. They'd be kinda useless if the boss stuck to us like glue all the time so positioning itself at least allows more opportunities to use them strategically.