Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

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Originally Posted by dustdjinn

Please forgive me because I am genuinely confused on why everyone is being purposely ignorant on what Yoshi said here. The raids are currently easy because they ramp in difficulty as the expansion goes on and they are trying to help first time raiders dip their toes into the scene. That is a good thing, he is trying to train a new group to the way raiding works in this game and it will get harder. Why is everyone acting like this isn't how its been working for STB and SHB? If you have destroyed all of the end game you should be trying ultimate, it sounds like its what most of you want.

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The issue with this is history has shown us they generally don't ramp up the difficulty in any significant way.

My issue is (and the reason I wrote the OP is) that Yoshi-P's statement effectively says, intentionally or not, that some healers will only find engagement (fun) in ultimate content.

It seems to me, and a LOT of veteran Healers, that the FFXIV developers are forgetting what they learned after the disaster of 1.0

They are dismissing certain players concerns

They have decided that a large section of the game doesn't need to be "fun". Yes I understand fun is very subjective but a large enough population of healers are so concerned that they made the healing question (that was bastardized in it's reading) the HIGHEST rated question on the entire submission forum.

https://i.imgur.com/yNA6HyQ.png

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Originally Posted by dustdjinn

Please forgive me because I am genuinely confused on why everyone is being purposely ignorant on what Yoshi said here. The raids are currently easy because they ramp in difficulty as the expansion goes on and they are trying to help first time raiders dip their toes into the scene. That is a good thing, he is trying to train a new group to the way raiding works in this game and it will get harder. Why is everyone acting like this isn't how its been working for STB and SHB? If you have destroyed all of the end game you should be trying ultimate, it sounds like its what most of you want.

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Let's see, some of the thought that come to mind:

- that answer completely ignore the 95% of the players (at least) who have no interest in Ultimate content- and that metric has been stable for the past 10 years. Why should that change now?
- what about all of the content that has nothing at all to do with raiding such as OW, MSQ i.e. solo instances? i.e. boring as hell to just have 1 or 2 DPS buttons especially all the way up to 90. Having something added over 90 levels should not affect accessibility unless someone uses a skip and to be completely honest- job skips should not factor into design decisions regarding "accessibility'.

finally, I don't understand the comment regarding training a new raiding group about how raiding works in this game . what new raiding group? This game has been out for 10 years- if you mean a new raiding series, people learn incredibly quickly. They even have done them with only one healer or no healers by now.
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Originally Posted by dustdjinn

Please forgive me because I am genuinely confused on why everyone is being purposely ignorant what Yoshi said here. The raids are currently easy because they ramp in difficulty as the expansion goes on and they are trying to help first time raiders dip their toes into the scene. That is a good thing, he is trying to train a new group to the way raiding works in this game and it will get harder. Why is everyone acting like this isn't how its been working for STB and SHB? If you have destroyed all of the end game you should be trying ultimate, it sounds like its what most of you want.

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BECAUSE THE QUESTION HAD LITTLE TO DO WITH DIFFICULTY. It barely had anything to do with raids at all, because it's an omnipresent problem with role design clashing with content design. It was about engagement when you're a capable healer.

The stuff mentioned (tanks solo clearing normal raids, all tank parties clearing early savage floors, extreme fights being cleared with no healers) were EXAMPLES of healer presence feeling wholly unnecessary in relevant content. If their healing is not required, why are healers even there? I didn't sign up to watch the kids to make sure nobody falls down and scrapes a knee, I signed up to be an active member of the team. Being an "active member" of the team currently means I press 1 button for the majority of the time, no matter the content, no matter the level. Solo duties? Dungeons? Trials? Extremes? MSQ questing? Glare spam into eternity. MSQ duties are actually the worst, because when it's supposed to be this fantastic duel, you're just...there. Spamming Glare. Being a one trick pony to that degree really takes you out of the fantasy of being this powerful magic user.

Once again, if this is the content design they want, that is perfectly fine! They just need to shape healers to fit within it properly, because they currently do not. If tanks were designed the way healers are (eg Single Target Flash, AoE Flash, an oGCD they can use every minute or so, an excessive slew of overkill mitigation skills, and maybe a single fell cleave every 90 seconds if they're lucky!), there'd be a riot.

lets keep pushing this comment section we are 1# in the general chat keep pushing it see if we may get something on 7.0 cause we ant getting something anytime soon

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Originally Posted by neosfaxim

lets keep pushing this comment section we are 1# in the general chat keep pushing it see if we may get something on 7.0 cause we ant getting something anytime soon

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But is there any realistic solution to this? The game doesn't even require you to have job stone equipped for WHM nor do you even need EW gear, even the free 89 one to queue for most of instances... and they want to import solo players from other FF games. In such game it's not possible to put any sort of personal responsibility (aside the very highest content out there) so what's left? Few more buttons to do DPS? Migrating healers to support DPS job types? (Amdapoor white mages were battling voidsents after all...)

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Originally Posted by dustdjinn

Please forgive me because I am genuinely confused on why everyone is being purposely ignorant on what Yoshi said here. The raids are currently easy because they ramp in difficulty as the expansion goes on and they are trying to help first time raiders dip their toes into the scene. That is a good thing, he is trying to train a new group to the way raiding works in this game and it will get harder. Why is everyone acting like this isn't how its been working for STB and SHB? If you have destroyed all of the end game you should be trying ultimate, it sounds like its what most of you want.

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Because the original question wasn't ever about the healing difficulty, it's them rewording the actual question in the liveletter by Recon1o6 about doing something about the monotonous spam of Dosis / Broil / Glare / Malefic. In actuality, doing challenging content like Ultimates and Higher end raids like Savage doesn't solve this problem at all. It makes it worse because healer DPS starts becoming essential and mandatory to beat Enrage. The actual question of 'can you do something about making me press the same one offense-oriented DPS button over 100+ times in an encounter' was never answered.

This problem doesn't exist only in raids, it exists in all content - normal as well. It only gets worse at higher levels. The higher you go, the more healing tools you get. The more healing tools OTHER jobs get. You actually heal less the better you get accustomed to a fight - even in normal modes. Gear makes it so you heal MORE per skill, but it also makes it so so you have to use LESS healing skills to get the same effect, and spend more time on DPS as a result. There's just so many ways a healer is largely discouraged from healing that they start feeling more and more like a DPS... but instead of pressing buttons, they're playing 'how many times can I press 1-1-1-1-1-1' simulator.

I main a WHM, but I don't raid in extreme/savage/ultimate cuz I don't feel myself having enough commitment to do those, so I generally stay away from scenario where heavy-healing is required. I believe there a large number of players who main healers but doesn't do anything hardcore that requires to utilize every of their healing kits.



For normal-difficulty dungeons/trials/raids, healers in this game has more than enough tools to keep the party afloat. Hell, if it is a dungeon with a warrior run, or tank just decides to one group pull, you can even safely ignore healing. The only times where casual healers feel pressured is when their group does the fight badly: people fail to follow mechanic and eat a lot of Vuln stack/deaths, or tank fail to their mitigation properly (they won't die with a unmitigated tankbuster, but you will have to heal more), or your co-healer just pushes all healing duty to you, or it is an ARR dungeon and W2W is not actually recommended due to lacking of kits for both tanks and healers.



So when healing is not strictly required, players will obviously focus on healer role's another job: DPS so that things will die faster for the group to move on. Which is, unfortunately, extremely lacking. Every healers' DPS kits are just one button for attack, another button for DoT, another button for AoE, and perhaps some extra attack buttons that are either long cooldown and bundled with healing, or just a DPS compensation for using gcd healing. Pretty much all classes have their DPS rotation changed significantly as they level up, while healers' DPS rotation stay basic from the beginning till end-game, which makes healers' class, while not feeling being pressured with healing or DPS, boring to play with.


The reason I main White Mage cuz outside of being straight-forward healer class, I feel that Holy stun is fun to play with in dungeon runs compared to other healers' pure AoE DPS. It is something that none of other healers can do, and I love blinding people and monsters alike. But in the end, it is a small blessing of entertainment that is drowned by the curse "single-DPS button".


The next 10 years, Yoshi-P has envisioned that FF14 will focus on becoming a game where solo and multi-players can both enjoy. If he really sticks to the plan, I suggest that he should consider make healers' DPS feel more satisfying to play, for solo players' enjoyment. Something that makes players feel the class growing with them, not only in healing, but also in DPS.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

the actual question in the liveletter by Recon1o6 about doing something about the monotonous spam of Dosis / Broil / Glare / Malefic.

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It‘s so frustrating that such a well thought question which considering all the likes it got concerns more than just a handful of players, gets changed in such a way to avoid it.
I actually main healers, but I feel more powerful in supporting my team as a redmage. You do badass DPS combos and also can turn a losing battle to a winning one with instant resurrections. Playing healer feels really underwhelming and it is concerning that all we got is basically a „go hardcore and do ultimate“ as an answer.

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Originally Posted by Momo_Kozuki

so I generally stay away from scenario where heavy-healing is required.

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I did EX2 on WHM when it was fresh and there wasn't much healing aside of hitting Medicas or aoe lilies every time raid wide cast was going off and some tank healing in intermission. Aside of that it's just a DPS race. My first kill was at the edge of enrage cast going off. Healing requirement was rather low vs DPS and enrage timer (and if someone died or you didn't use LB for DPS then it was enrage).

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Originally Posted by Momo_Kozuki

or it is an ARR dungeon and W2W is not actually recommended due to lacking of kits for both tanks and healers.

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W2W is even in Sastasha. The only limitations is when you have 2 melee dps for low level dungeons = no AoE DPS.

Guys just remember next Q&A will try and repeat the same question that was said to see if they keep ignoring it i will not give up ^^