Reasonable buff to war

Well extending duration means 1 of 2 things.

1. Change nothing and extend duration. OP as fudge. 10 sec duration, 25sec recast, same heals/damage jesus no.
2. Nerf it to extend duration because of #1. 10% mit and 25% healing nerfed anymore will be functionally useless for tank busters and there are not many situations where it is advantageous to have more, slow/weak heals/mit over time than when most damage is highly bursty.

So, its just a bad idea overall. The only gain is for making it closer to old bloodbath in dungeons, which as i mentioned, is wholly unneccessary when war is already the best (functional) sustain tank in dungeons. (pld can sustain more but at the cost of 0 damage which is why i say 'functional').

I didnt say anything about self targeting. I wouldnt turn it down if they gave it out, but its also not exactly the top of my list as it only affects soloing things that can kill a tank (niche), and 'everyone is dead but me on this dungeon boss' situations, which are highly, highly niche situations the way this game is designed. I wont loose any sleep over those.

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Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

Other person suggested duration increase i just thought, maybe wrongly, that meant weaker mitigation was in order to offset.

Mitigation wss only dicussed in connection to duration.

No one tied target requirement to mitigation.

Why does duration have to be tied to the raget requirement?

Target requirement should just be removed period.

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Leave it simple. HoS is 7 seconds. To ensure you can get your GCDs of self-healing out of it, increase Nascent to 7 seconds.

Nascent Flash: "Grants Nascent Flash. If targeting a party member within 25 yalms, also grants Nascent Glint to target party member."
Nascent Flash Effect: Generates healing equal to 25% of damage dealt. Half of each healing effect will be duplicated to your nearest party member. While active, your nearest party member will also take 10% less damage.
Duration: 7 seconds.
Nascent Glint Effect: Diverts the healing and mitigation that would normally be given to the nearest party member instead to the target affected by Nascent Glint."

I picked up War again recently to give it another chance after abandoning it on launch because tanking had become dull. I'm baffled anyone can think it's in a good spot. As far as I can see, the already easiest tank in the game gained nothing new from 70-80 besides Nascent Flash and what amount to Infuriate Traits.

It's a viable tank, no mistake. Damage is enough for savage and the mitigation is fine. Holm is a bit mediocre but the new Raw Intuition is nice. But as was said many times with DRK in SB (and probably now), viable doesn't mean fun.

War just doesn't excel at anything meaningful that would make you want to pick up the class. You have those juicy IR cleaves that still result in the lowest dps. You have less utility than Pala and your mitigation isn't that special.
It's sort of like the Fisher Price "Baby's First Tank" right now. Something easy for people who don't really main tank to have as a back up role. Which is sad.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I picked up War again recently to give it another chance after abandoning it on launch because tanking had become dull. I'm baffled anyone can think it's in a good spot. As far as I can see, the already easiest tank in the game gained nothing new from 70-80 besides Nascent Flash and what amount to Infuriate Traits.

It's a viable tank, no mistake. Damage is enough for savage and the mitigation is fine. Holm is a bit mediocre but the new Raw Intuition is nice. But as was said many times with DRK in SB (and probably now), viable doesn't mean fun.

War just doesn't excel at anything meaningful that would make you want to pick up the class. You have those juicy IR cleaves that still result in the lowest dps. You have less utility than Pala and your mitigation isn't that special.
It's sort of like the Fisher Price "Baby's First Tank" right now. Something easy for people who don't really main tank to have as a back up role. Which is sad.

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Yeah nascent flash is the only really new action. Its actually a half action as its kinda like just giving wars back bloodbath.

And i dont like the new infuriate/inner chaos thing at all... i wish they just buffed fc damage and added a different war action instead of inner chaos and chaotic cyclone.

Tbh i would love to trade nascent flash for blood bath...

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I picked up War again recently to give it another chance after abandoning it on launch because tanking had become dull. I'm baffled anyone can think it's in a good spot.

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The reason why people proclaim WAR to be in a good spot is because it REALLY is in a good spot. The job itself was lauded throughout all of SB, and there was little objection whenever WAR was praised as the prime example of great class design. Now, as we can objectively describe, the job has changed little compared to its peers. Is that a bad thing considering the past qualifier that WAR was fine? More than fine, it was great. So no, the fact WAR saw few changes is something I'd call an excellent decision.

Fun? That's personal taste. I think it's fun now for the same reasons I thought it was fun back then: big burst coupled with smooth gameplay and great design. I can already tell you, those reasons are still there.

Lowest DPS? I'm not so sure about that one, given some fights it's actually third place, depending if you're looking at median scores or max DPS on different savage fights. But I'll humor you and pretend that it's dead last in all fights, for the sake of the argument. In a fight like e4s, we see a discrepancy of 130 DPS between median scores for GNB and WAR. That's what standing between the bottom and the top. In a glorified dummy fight like e2s, looking at max scores, we're seeing a slightly larger discrepancy at 200 dps. That difference is so insignificant considering we're talking about tanks hitting at 9.3k and 9.5k, within raid comps that exceed 100k rDPS. And we're crying over 200 DPS (a 0.2% of such a raid comp btw) and the "last place in DPS" title like it means anything?

Utility-wise, it's still pretty darn good. SiO is still good. Holmgang is still the invuln with the shortest recast. It can actually support a MT now with nascent flash. What more do you want or need? Does it need to grow wings out of its back to have special utility? Does it need to turn all damage into 0 to have special mitigation?

You play WAR because you want to, because you like the simplicity and low APM with all the flashiness that comes with it, and you never go wrong with the option. Besides, from the look of things after thoroughly examining your logs, WAR sounds like just the job for you considering you don't really play tank.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

The reason why people proclaim WAR to be in a good spot is because it REALLY is in a good spot. The job itself was lauded throughout all of SB, and there was little objection whenever WAR was praised as the prime example of great class design.

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Uh, you sure about that?

I remember launch it wasn't all that well liked, including through the savage patch and 4.1 adjustments. And then unga bunga 4.2 came along and at that point the job became a meme. Sure, people had fun with it, but I wouldn't go around calling that the prime example of great class design. I think Paladin gets to take that crown before the Warrior does, and from personal opinion I'd still put SB Dark Knight in front of it.

And then you just expand to other roles and I'd count like five others who could claim it before Warrior. Stormblood Bard without much question, Red Mage and Samurai (Though it was their expansion, so no adaptation from previous iterations had to be factored in), SB Black Mage, and personally I'd say SB Machinist too.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Uh, you sure about that?

I remember launch it wasn't all that well liked, including through the savage patch and 4.1 adjustments. And then unga bunga 4.2 came along and at that point the job became a meme. Sure, people had fun with it, but I wouldn't go around calling that the prime example of great class design. I think Paladin gets to take that crown before the Warrior does, and from personal opinion I'd still put SB Dark Knight in front of it.

And then you just expand to other roles and I'd count like five others who could claim it before Warrior. Stormblood Bard without much question, Red Mage and Samurai (Though it was their expansion, so no adaptation from previous iterations had to be factored in), SB Black Mage, and personally I'd say SB Machinist too.

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Oh, right. I forgot about that whole segment where stance dancing halved your guage. Such a blunder had to be wiped from my memory. However, the point remains that was something carried over from HW and maintained roughly afterwards. 4.2 changes aside, we still kept that main identity and design philosophy.

Now, while PLD was effectively the best tank, I wouldn't call it better designed due to how its tank stance never felt good going into, how slide-casting had to be performed to excel in, and other stuff that I don't care to get into. I loved SB DRK, more so than WAR, but that's preferences, and not something I'd attribute to design either.

Point remains, WAR's awesome right now.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

Point remains, WAR's awesome right now.

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Eh. Personally, the only time I got excited while leveling it was when Nascent Glint came online, and even then it should have just been a Bloodbath upgrade. It's kind of in the same park as Red Mage for me.

It's got no new toys, and any new conflicts that could have happened were immediately curtailed.

WAR is last in every fight; stop only looking at rDPS when comparing the tanks.